Coffee machine recommendations?

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27 posts

Geek

#3315941 4-Dec-2024 17:03

Handle9:
One of the things I like about my e61 is how basic and mechanical it is to work on. I gave mine a bit of a birthday yesterday. It got a descale, new group head seal, greased the cam and a good clean.

The only thing that's a worry is making sure I don't scratch the chrome!

Basic is the ideal. Does that mean that your E61 is purely electric/mechanical without PID? If so, how necessary do you think PID is? I've seen many E61s get sold on TM but it looks like PID / computer control doesn't seem to be too standard?

Handle9

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#3315953 4-Dec-2024 17:13

MrMatt:
Handle9:

One of the things I like about my e61 is how basic and mechanical it is to work on. I gave mine a bit of a birthday yesterday. It got a descale, new group head seal, greased the cam and a good clean.

The only thing that's a worry is making sure I don't scratch the chrome!

Basic is the ideal. Does that mean that your E61 is purely electric/mechanical without PID? If so, how necessary do you think PID is? I've seen many E61s get sold on TM but it looks like PID / computer control doesn't seem to be too standard?

It's PID and I wouldn't buy a machine that isn't PID. I just want to make coffee, not muck about with temperature surfing.

It's just a control module instead of a thermostat, it's likely to be more reliable as it's solid state.

MrMatt

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Geek

#3315954 4-Dec-2024 17:17

I see, that makes sense! PID is something I would definitely like whatever machine I eventually buy to have.

sen8or

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#3316086 5-Dec-2024 08:22

Handle9:

One of the things I like about my e61 is how basic and mechanical it is to work on. I gave mine a bit of a birthday yesterday. It got a descale, new group head seal, greased the cam and a good clean.

The only thing that's a worry is making sure I don't scratch the chrome!

Was that just a descale solution run through the boiler / water reservoir?

mrphil

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Ultimate Geek

#3316092 5-Dec-2024 08:57

For the Christchurch residences, how often are you decaling?

elpenguino

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#3316127 5-Dec-2024 11:09

Handle9:

It's PID and I wouldn't buy a machine that isn't PID. I just want to make coffee, not muck about with temperature surfing.

It's just a control module instead of a thermostat, it's likely to be more reliable as it's solid state.

As I understand it, a PID controller is a sophisticated thing. Are you using (tuning) the 'I' and 'D' functions in your coffee machine?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#3316292 5-Dec-2024 15:54

elpenguino:
Handle9:

It's PID and I wouldn't buy a machine that isn't PID. I just want to make coffee, not muck about with temperature surfing.

It's just a control module instead of a thermostat, it's likely to be more reliable as it's solid state.

As I understand it, a PID controller is a sophisticated thing. Are you using (tuning) the 'I' and 'D' functions in your coffee machine?

In all seriousness how would you suggest tuning the PID loop when you don’t have direct access to the sensors to measure the disturbance response?

It’s a temperature controller, they come tuned out of the box.

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Handle9

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#3316293 5-Dec-2024 15:54

sen8or:
Handle9:

One of the things I like about my e61 is how basic and mechanical it is to work on. I gave mine a bit of a birthday yesterday. It got a descale, new group head seal, greased the cam and a good clean.

The only thing that's a worry is making sure I don't scratch the chrome!

Was that just a descale solution run through the boiler / water reservoir?

Yeah. I really didn’t feel like stripping the boilers.

I use good water so I don’t really get scale.

elpenguino

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#3316299 5-Dec-2024 16:18

Handle9:

In all seriousness how would you suggest tuning the PID loop when you don’t have direct access to the sensors to measure the disturbance response?

It’s a temperature controller, they come tuned out of the box.

This is what I want to ask about. People seem dead set on PID controllers for coffee machines but I struggle to see the application.

For the PID controller to work in the most basic way there would have to be a hot water temperature sensor.

I imagine most water boilers have a response factor longer than the time to pull a shot so even if the PID controller adjusts the heater mid shot, it's all over.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Handle9

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#3316313 5-Dec-2024 16:44

elpenguino:

Handle9:

In all seriousness how would you suggest tuning the PID loop when you don’t have direct access to the sensors to measure the disturbance response?

It’s a temperature controller, they come tuned out of the box.

This is what I want to ask about. People seem dead set on PID controllers for coffee machines but I struggle to see the application.

For the PID controller to work in the most basic way there would have to be a hot water temperature sensor.

I imagine most water boilers have a response factor longer than the time to pull a shot so even if the PID controller adjusts the heater mid shot, it's all over.

There is a hotwater sensor. There's no way to graph that, which is what would be required to loop tune by the user.

The whole point of a PID controller is it tightly controls the temperature of the boiler so you don't get the same level of overshoot compared to a mechanical thermostat. It's why temperature surfing is a thing on units with mechanical thermostats.

Typically PID controls to ±0.5 degrees, a thermostat is ±3-5 degrees

Tinkerisk

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#3317325 5-Dec-2024 19:28

Low budget but still good, many sizes.

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AistWhite

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#3326391 30-Dec-2024 23:35

jonathan18:

Handsomedan:

Is that the dual boiler model, where you can run both ethe espresso shot and the steam wand at the same time?

Other brands have made 'consumer' models with dual boilers; my machine before this was a Sunbeam EM7100 which was also 58mm/dual boiler. Don't think I'd go back to a single boiler model now for my daily driver (but do cope with this for my work/take on holiday machine!).

I am reading this now, almsot a year later.

You need to be careful with how you word things. EM7100 as an example is a Dual Thermal Block, not a Dual Boiler. These are very different things and give very different results. A boiler, whether dual or single, is an actual boiler in the machine, heating an amount of hot water that is stored in the boiler tank. A Thermal Block is like "instant" heating. It's a block of metal that gets hot, then the water passes through it getting heated by the block as it passes through. These give tow quite different results, so it is actually important to know the difference between a boiler and thermal block in these machines, whether it be dual or single design

martyyn

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#3364567 16-Apr-2025 10:54

I'm looking to the GZ coffee community for a sanity check.

We currently have a Breville Barista Express BES870. It does a pretty good job but the grind amount dial on the front is regularly moved when it's cleaned and after moving to an open bottomed portafilter, WDT and adjustable damper I can't for the life of me stop it from channeling. We buy the same beans every week and I've gone through the grind size, 18g, 19g, 20g, different damper heights, the lot, it's always a mess.

My wife's desire for "I just want a coffee" and my desire to not have to test the amount every week is leading me to separate the two.

I'd like to keep it under $1000 and have ended up with the Breville Smart Grinder Pro ($320-ish) and a Bambino ($440-ish).

The next level up seems to the Baratza 270 which is at least double the SGP and the Bambino Plus which only seems to add auto milk functions which we are unlikely to use. We just heat a little milk on the stove, not wanting froth or texture or anything fancy, just a little warm milk in an espresso.

I'm happy with the Bambino's reviews but just want to be sure with the grinder I can add beans to the hopper, set it 18g (or whatever I settle on), have the transfer from cup to portafilter be easy and mess free and never have to worry about someone messing about with it by "accident".

Any thoughts or recommendations ?

cddt

1511 posts

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#3364584 16-Apr-2025 11:11

Tinkerisk:

Low budget but still good, many sizes.

This is my setup. Except a larger size, it said "four cups" on the box but actually does only 200-250 ml (approximately, I haven't measured precisely). Which is a good size for me, when mixed with the same quantity of warm milk.

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robjg63

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#3364610 16-Apr-2025 12:16

Don't use a Moka pot much these days, but used to have a relative that made awful coffee in one.

We bought one and found they actually work quite well.

The real trick is to start them off with boiling (or near boiling) water.

Using boiling water rather than cold tap water gives the coffee a much more pleasant and fresher taste.

If you start from cold it usually seems to taste quite bitter and loses a lot of flavour.

(My 10c worth).

PS Yep - their sizing is based on an extremely small espresso cup - 70ml.

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