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OldGeek
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  #2658536 17-Feb-2021 16:23
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I would suggest that your father never accept an unsolicited offer on his home.  That is not the way to get the best price and allowing that offer to drive considerations of his future in a timeframe driven by settlement date is a recipe for a decision he may come to regret.  On the bright side, the unsolicited offer gives an indication that his property is in demand and if sold may command a much greater price.  This is not the major decision though.

 

Your father should simply consider what he would do if he was to move on from his current home.  Assuming that decision is to move into a retirement village, then he needs to make decisions about the best options that might fit in assuming the unsolicited offer had been paid.  This should be done without any timeframe pressures.

 

A link to a consumer nz article on retirement villages is a must-read (cited by another poster to this thread).  There is a lot to think about there.

 

I would suggest that any shortlisted villages then be asked to provide a sample agreement that your father would be asked to pay for (usually a right-to-occupy agreement).  This agreement should be fully reviewed by your father's lawyer so he knows what he is getting into.  Insert a purchase condition that allows him to back out if his property is not sold, then sign up and put his current property on the market.

 

Good luck with this - and again keep time pressures too a minimum.

 





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jonathan18
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  #2658697 17-Feb-2021 20:14
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duckDecoy:

 

Thanks for the replies so far.   Its interesting to hear that some people didn't enjoy the experience at all, we will have to make sure he knows what he's in for.   Renting rather than buying isn't an option I knew about, so we'll look into that as well.

 

Money wise we don't care how much of a bite they take, or what they charge for care.  If it's what he wants to do then it's his money to do it with.

 

 

I'm not sure that renting is an option in many retirement villages, whether that is a separate unit or a serviced apartment; that's the standard for rest homes, though (or the rest home part of a facility offering a wider range of living/care options). 

 

I wish it wasn't the case, as the financial commitment to purchase a licence to occupy is so significant that one should ideally be able to commit to it for a decent number of years (given the heavy loss in value in the LtO occurs over the first two or three years).

 

This lack of rental options means it's difficult to find a relatively short-term option for people like my mother, which means there'll inevitably be a huge change in store for her, from ageing in place in her own home to the "delights" of a rest home.        

 

 

 

 




duckDecoy

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  #2658698 17-Feb-2021 20:15
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OldGeek:

 

I would suggest that your father never accept an unsolicited offer on his home.  That is not the way to get the best price and allowing that offer to drive considerations of his future in a timeframe driven by settlement date is a recipe for a decision he may come to regret.  On the bright side, the unsolicited offer gives an indication that his property is in demand and if sold may command a much greater price.  This is not the major decision though.

 

 

You're offering good advice here, but this circumstance might be slightly more black and white.  My dad lives in a "run" of 7 connected townhouses.  Number one, neighbours on one side only, sold for 1.1 million about a month ago.  Number 6, neighbours on both sides which is the same as my dad, sold for 960k about a week ago.  Both were auction.  The number 6 one had a better interior than my dad's as they paid additional for fancier bathrooms and bedrooms.

 

So in this particular case I think 950k is probably an on point market offer.  But your point is a good one.


OldGeek
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  #2658723 17-Feb-2021 21:01
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duckDecoy:

 

OldGeek:

 

I would suggest that your father never accept an unsolicited offer on his home.  That is not the way to get the best price and allowing that offer to drive considerations of his future in a timeframe driven by settlement date is a recipe for a decision he may come to regret.  On the bright side, the unsolicited offer gives an indication that his property is in demand and if sold may command a much greater price.  This is not the major decision though.

 

 

You're offering good advice here, but this circumstance might be slightly more black and white.  My dad lives in a "run" of 7 connected townhouses.  Number one, neighbours on one side only, sold for 1.1 million about a month ago.  Number 6, neighbours on both sides which is the same as my dad, sold for 960k about a week ago.  Both were auction.  The number 6 one had a better interior than my dad's as they paid additional for fancier bathrooms and bedrooms.

 

So in this particular case I think 950k is probably an on point market offer.  But your point is a good one.

 

 

I understand the temptation, but there is no hurry.  Take the time to make the right decision on where he will move to.  While the value of his existing home may be 'back-and-white',  it is his options on where to move to that are less certain and therefore require time and research.  Rights-to-occupy are expensive to exit.





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Inphinity
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  #2658817 18-Feb-2021 09:45
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Please be fully aware that most retirement villages, particularly Metlifecare and Ryman, you are buying a Right to Occupy, NOT buying the apartment. You will still have fairly hefty ongoing fees to live there, and are fully at their mercy as far as your rights to do anything (including, in some cases, replace lightbulbs etc). The cost of doing things 'their way' adds up more than many people expect. Just make sure you fully understand the minutiae of what you'd be agreeing to. Even cost aside, if you're hoping to take advantage of services offered, like transport to and from supermarket, for example, understand any limits around this - in at least one of the villages this is offered, but it's one group trip a week at a specific time, and if that conflicts with something else you're doing, or there are too many participants to fit in the van that week, you miss out.


Fred99
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  #2658828 18-Feb-2021 10:07
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Inphinity:

 

Please be fully aware that most retirement villages, particularly Metlifecare and Ryman, you are buying a Right to Occupy, NOT buying the apartment.

 

 

Yep - with serious financial downsides.  However when my father moved in to one we talked about all the downsides, he was fully aware that as a financial decision it wasn't great, but he wanted to move in to one anyway.  It was his money, his decision, and really I think some people forget what money is for.  Tip - the purpose of money isn't to make more money as unearned income from passive investment to hand on to your kids.

 

That said, I'd rather be shot at dawn than confined to live the rest of my days in a regimented ghetto for old folks.




OldGeek
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  #2658843 18-Feb-2021 10:56
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Fred99:

 

That said, I'd rather be shot at dawn than confined to live the rest of my days in a regimented ghetto for old folks.

 

 

The likes of Sumerset and Ryman et al have a business model predicated to deliver the opposite of this - non regimentation and independent living.  This is the major reason that a right-to-occupy is worth the cost.

 

Confronting as this is, there are many elderly that require levels of care that only a hospital environment can provide and for those that have Dementia this includes enforced confinement.  The End-of-life Choice act comes into force soon (November 2021).





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Fred99
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  #2659012 18-Feb-2021 13:51
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OldGeek:

 

Fred99:

 

That said, I'd rather be shot at dawn than confined to live the rest of my days in a regimented ghetto for old folks.

 

 

The likes of Sumerset and Ryman et al have a business model predicated to deliver the opposite of this - non regimentation and independent living.  This is the major reason that a right-to-occupy is worth the cost.

 

Confronting as this is, there are many elderly that require levels of care that only a hospital environment can provide and for those that have Dementia this includes enforced confinement.  The End-of-life Choice act comes into force soon (November 2021).

 

 

I'm deeply suspicious that sometimes families of elderly people exert undue influence on decisions, and do this based on their own self interest or convenience.

 

There is some "home help" available in a privately owned home - government funded if your income is below a threshold, and if it isn't, you can probably afford to pay for it anyway.  Downsizing can be a good idea of course, but that doesn't mean a retirement village is the best option for many people.

 

It's very hard to imagine a scenario where the EoL Choice Act would make any difference at all to a person with dementia.  If they're diagnosed early and deemed to be compos mentis, then it's highly unlikely any medical specialist could put an end date / life expectancy as the condition is so variable, it could be months, probably years, possibly decades. If they've already got dementia, then they won't have a choice.

 

One should visit a secure dementia ward before deciding that a parent should be evaluated to be "committed" as a patient.  "Normal" rest homes typically have a "semi secure" policy - which doesn't actually give them any legal right to confine their "guests".  They simply have self-closing doors with combination locks, the code is usually 0000, if the rest home resident is compos mentis they come and go as they please, if not then they simply can't open the door, if they ask to go out, then staff encourage them not to - but can't physically prevent them from "escape".  Most of the time this works ok, and most of the time if they end up with a "need" for (secure) dementia ward care, they're not capable of "escaping" anyway.  Of course there are exceptions.


frankv
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  #2659069 18-Feb-2021 15:02
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Fred99:

 

One should visit a secure dementia ward before deciding that a parent should be evaluated to be "committed" as a patient. 

 

 

A dementia unit is an unsettling place to visit.

 

[quoted] Fred99:

 

if they ask to go out, then staff encourage them not to - but can't physically prevent them from "escape". 

 

 [/quoted]

 

Yeah... the staff are really key to keeping the patient happy. It's not a job I could do.

 

[quoted] Fred99:

 

Of course there are exceptions.

 

[/quoted]

 

My mother escaped a couple of times. One time she opened the gate to a disused, empty spa pool, climbed up on it and managed to step/fall over the surrounding fence into the free world. She had a deep-set conviction that her long daily walk was what kept her healthy.

 

 


jonathan18
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  #2659113 18-Feb-2021 16:14
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Fred99:

 

There is some "home help" available in a privately owned home - government funded if your income is below a threshold, and if it isn't, you can probably afford to pay for it anyway.  Downsizing can be a good idea of course, but that doesn't mean a retirement village is the best option for many people.

 

 

The type of home help the govt may fund via the DHBs is great for helping with practical assistance like meals, personal care and house cleaning, and even helps with social interaction, but is not going to offer a solution for those requiring closer to 24/7 care. The cost of meeting that privately is not cheap.

 

A combination of private and publicly funded care has been great to help my mother retain her ‘independent living’ since my father died, but the time is ever more rapidly approaching as her health deteriorates and her dementia worsens when it just won’t be enough. What then?


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