The Discrimination Thread

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Networkn
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#2687891 7-Apr-2021 14:46

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/300271410/joe-wheeler-taken-off-air-after-mocking-asian-accent

There ya go, turns out Sky was doing stuff behind the scenes. Probably following normal employment practices :)

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Rikkitic

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#2687895 7-Apr-2021 15:07

So Wheeler apologised. Sky took him off air. Stuff, reporting on the fact, happily repeats Wheeler's dumb racist 'joke'. And then they have the nerve to beg for money!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#2687897 7-Apr-2021 15:12

Here's the thing: The media don't have the balls to say 'fück, even when quoting someone, yet they have no problem at all repeating a demeaning 'joke' that has just been universally decried as racist. Are Asians supposed to find it less offensive the second time around? Someone needs educating here.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Paul1977

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#2687905 7-Apr-2021 15:38

Rikkitic:

Here's the thing: The media don't have the balls to say 'fück, even when quoting someone, yet they have no problem at all repeating a demeaning 'joke' that has just been universally decried as racist. Are Asians supposed to find it less offensive the second time around? Someone needs educating here.

But they would put a placeholder like "f***" or "f-word".

Handle9

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#2687918 7-Apr-2021 16:03

networkn:
Handle9:

Being a GP doesn't require a superhuman intellect, ability to relate to people is just as important as raw academic performance.

Being a GP requires the same amount of intellect as any other Doctor, it's a far more widespread speciality than many areas.

It's a common misnomer that GP's are less qualified than other doctors, and it's completely false. My wife, a GP, has the same core training as every other medical doctor in NZ, and on top of that, she has additional specialist training, the same as a radiologist or any other "speciality".

Being a GP isn't 'easier' than being any other kind of doctor, it's different.

It also doesn't require superhuman intellect. Medicine is a popular course therefore it has a high barrier to entry as do many other courses. Achieving a 94% average isn't required to competently practice as a GP.

Handle9

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#2687982 7-Apr-2021 18:00

MikeB4:

Paul1977:

This is where I'm not following your line of thinking. If there is no "grading" to racism, then you believe all forms of racism are equally abhorrent - correct? Yet you don't believe they should all face the same sanctions?

If someone said something racist in a restaurant you believe they should be asked to leave. Fair enough. If someone filmed it in the restaurant and put it on Facebook and their boss saw it, should the boss fire them? What if it wasn't filmed, but a colleague was there and told the boss about it? Should they be fired then?

If they identified or is widely known as being being part employers company they could be fired for bringing the company into disrepute.

If the employee admitted fault, committed not to do it again and engaged in whatever training was required that would likely fail the test for an employer to behave in a reasonable manner. The barrier for termination is high, for very good reasons.

MikeB4

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#2688113 8-Apr-2021 08:49

@Handle9 I am fully aware of the managing dismissal procedures and regulations under employment relations. After 30+ years in management one learns a thing or two. Since the demise of the 90 day probation dismissal for serious misconduct is probably the easiest criteria if not the easiest criteria. Racial abuse abuse and bring the organisation into disrepute while publicly representing or giving identity to would constitute serious misconduct.

networkn

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#2688321 8-Apr-2021 13:28

MikeB4:

@Handle9 I am fully aware of the managing dismissal procedures and regulations under employment relations. After 30+ years in management one learns a thing or two. Since the demise of the 90 day probation dismissal for serious misconduct is probably the easiest criteria if not the easiest criteria. Racial abuse abuse and bring the organisation into disrepute while publicly representing or giving identity to would constitute serious misconduct.

He did not racially abuse anyone, he made fun of someone's accent, which is in my opinion racist, but at the lower end of possible offending. I doubt Sky has suffered significant financial loss or loss of it's market position, nor it's reputation taken a significant hit. I don't see many people packing their Sky boxes up and sending them back off the back of this isolated incident which Sky has condemned, whilst taken (IMO) appropriate employment action against the employee.

He was culturally insensitive and thoughtless and careless with his comments, but these are things easily resolved through education. That being the case, I don't see it as a reason to end someone's career. In fact I think Joe is now in a unique to show how education can positively impact people in general.

MikeB4

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#2688325 8-Apr-2021 13:46

networkn:

He did not racially abuse anyone, he made fun of someone's accent, which is in my opinion racist, but at the lower end of possible offending. I doubt Sky has suffered significant financial loss or loss of it's market position, nor it's reputation taken a significant hit. I don't see many people packing their Sky boxes up and sending them back off the back of this isolated incident which Sky has condemned, whilst taken (IMO) appropriate employment action against the employee.

He was culturally insensitive and thoughtless and careless with his comments, but these are things easily resolved through education. That being the case, I don't see it as a reason to end someone's career. In fact I think Joe is now in a unique to show how education can positively impact people in general.

@networkn I politely suggest you read the following.

From our Human Right Commission...

"We all have the right to be treated fairly, with respect and to be free from unwelcome racial discrimination.

Racial harassment is behaviour that is racist, hurtful or offensive and is either repeated or serious enough to have a harmful effect on you. Racial harassment can involve spoken, written or visual material or a physical act. You don’t have to put up with racist behaviour you don’t like and racial harassment is often repeated unless action is taken. It may impact on how you feel about work, study or accessing services.

Employers also have a responsibility to take steps to prevent harassment and to respond to complaints. This includes harassment by employees or clients.

You may have been racially harassed if someone: makes offensive remarks or jokes about your race, colour, ethnicity or nationality; mimics the way you speak, e.g. if you have an accent; calls you racist names; shows you racially offensive material in the workplace; or deliberately mispronounces your name.

Racial harassment may also be unintentional. The person who is being offensive may be unaware of its effect, but they can still be held responsible. What is important is how the behaviour affects you or others."

From the Australian Human Rights Commission..

"Racism can take many forms, such as jokes or comments that cause offence or hurt, name-calling or verbal abuse, harassment or intimidation, or commentary in the media or online that inflames hostility towards certain racial groups. Racism can also take the form of unfair treatment of people because of their race.

The Racial Discrimination Act makes racism that amounts to discrimination against the law. Racial discrimination is when a person is treated less favourably, or not given the same opportunities, as others in a similar situation, because of their race, the country where they were born, their ethnic origin or their skin colour.

Racism that is racial hatred can also be against the law. Racial hatred is doing or saying something in public, including in the workplace, based on the race, colour, national or ethnic origin of a person or group of people, which is likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate.

Examples: Making racist comments on blogs and social networking sites; displaying racist posters or cartoons in the workplace, or calling people racist names in the workplace.

The Act contains exemptions to protect freedom of speech.

Employers can be liable for discrimination and harassment by their employees of other staff, clients and customers. This is called ‘vicarious liability’."

The UN Declaration on Race and Racial Prejudice ( This is very long so I have provided you a link)

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.11_declaration%20on%20race%20and%20racial%20prejudice.pdf

Dingbatt

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#2688375 8-Apr-2021 15:29

Last weekend Aussie commentator Phil Kearns made reference to the hackneyed old “Fush und Chups” phrase when talking about a NZer (in that case Andrew Mehrtens). Should he now face sanctions?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Handle9

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#2688377 8-Apr-2021 15:31

MikeB4:
@Handle9 I am fully aware of the managing dismissal procedures and regulations under employment relations. After 30+ years in management one learns a thing or two. Since the demise of the 90 day probation dismissal for serious misconduct is probably the easiest criteria if not the easiest criteria. Racial abuse abuse and bring the organisation into disrepute while publicly representing or giving identity to would constitute serious misconduct.

You need to learn some more. This isn't the first time you've made erroneous claims like this.

If you are claiming harassment you need to meet some quite specific tests, where this clearly fails. The law society describes the tests as below.

Expresses hostility against, or brings the employee into contempt or ridicule, because of their race, colour, or ethnic or national origins of the employee, and
This is hurtful or offensive to the employee (even if they don’t let the employer or the employer’s representative know this), and
It is so significant or repeated that it has a negative effect on the employee's work and performance.

This falls far more clearly into misconduct which isn't grounds for dismissal on its own. If this went to court the most likely outcome would be a nice payout for Wheeler

MikeB4

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#2688383 8-Apr-2021 15:41

@Handle9 if the Sky were to take a harassment case in this instant they would lose as this was not hassrassment. It was not involving another employee( I will concede that if Sky owns the particular Rugby Franchise) It was public racial abuse of another individual not in Sky employment in a public place and on national television while representing Sky Television Network.

Handle9

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#2688386 8-Apr-2021 15:44

Once again you fail a test of reasonableness. It wasn't abuse.

It was using inappropriate and racist language but very clearly not abuse.

networkn

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#2688391 8-Apr-2021 15:48

Dingbatt:

Last weekend Aussie commentator Phil Kearns made reference to the hackneyed old “Fush und Chups” phrase when talking about a NZer (in that case Andrew Mehrtens). Should he now face sanctions?

I know you are mostly kidding..

Kearns should have faced sanctions for many many things he has said over the years, this one probably not :)

Handsomedan

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#2688394 8-Apr-2021 15:50

Dingbatt:

Last weekend Aussie commentator Phil Kearns made reference to the hackneyed old “Fush und Chups” phrase when talking about a NZer (in that case Andrew Mehrtens). Should he now face sanctions?

Based on what has been said, he should be sacked, publicly humiliated, unable to work in the industry again and face a life of unending misery.

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