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floydbloke
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  #2733314 23-Jun-2021 18:29
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freitasm:

 

If the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a hoax, ...

 

 

 

 

All this debate....it's a rational and fair decision...even a 5 year old knows that spaghetti monsters can't fly.





I've joined a carpenters course.  Haven't made anything yet....we've only just begun.

 

 


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MikeB4
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  #2733410 24-Jun-2021 08:05
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If we are going to selectively strip basic human rights what others should we strip, Freedom of speech? Freedom of assembly? Freedom of residence?


sxz

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  #2733419 24-Jun-2021 08:22
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Kiwifruta:

 

As someone who is religious, I can vouch that mental health support is provided by paying for counsellors to those that ask for help. There are also many other services provided in the community of which there is no tax payer funded government provided alternative, e.g. meals delivered to new mothers. Religious organisations are able to provide services to the community more cheaply than government organisations because they use unpaid volunteers rather than paid workers to provide these services. Therefore are able to provide more services per dollar spent.

 

 

 

Here are examples of some, not an exhaustive list, church connected organisations providing service to the community

 

https://www.latterdaysaintcharities.org/

 

https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschrist.org/

 

https://adra.org/

 

https://www.nadadventist.org/departments/adventist-community-services

 

https://www.salvationarmy.org.nz/centres/#!/welfare

 

 

meals delivered to new mothers, mental health services (etc.) can all be established as charities, and church members (and other people) can continue to run those as volunteers if that is what they would like to do. Easy peasy.  My problem is that religions get a blanket charitible status for all their activities, not just for those that are helping people.  It's just not appropriate in a modern society.  Remember tax is only paid on profit, so if a  church spent all its money on meals to new mothers and mental health services it would pay no tax anyway - so why does it need charitable status?




Fred99
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  #2733538 24-Jun-2021 09:53
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The big churches own massive property portfolios in NZ, pay no capital gains tax, and don't pay council rates on properties - so long as they use the property to hold ceremonies worshipping a sky daddy.

 

But it gets worse.  Unlike anybody else, they're allowed to practice and preach bigotry and wear that "right" as a badge of honour.  That needs to be stopped.

 

However tax laws on "charitable foundations" do actually apply to non-religious organisations - so it's picking the wrong fight.  Some better oversight of charitable organisation's activities is probably needed.

 

 

 

 


Gurezaemon
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  #2733540 24-Jun-2021 09:57
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Fred99:

 

But it gets worse.  Unlike anybody else, they're allowed to practice and preach bigotry and wear that "right" as a badge of honour.  That needs to be stopped.

 

 

^This. People who start statements "As a person of faith,..." and then expect us to think that's a good thing? 





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dafman
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  #2733544 24-Jun-2021 10:02
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Fred99:

 

However tax laws on "charitable foundations" do actually apply to non-religious organisations - so it's picking the wrong fight.  Some better oversight of charitable organisation's activities is probably needed.

 

 

Problem is, there are large corporations, registered as charitable organisations, that are also affiliated to religious organisations - so are they tax exempt because they are a charity or a church?

 

Either way, they are commercial businesses making substantive profits and avoiding paying a fair share of tax under current regime (IMHO).


Rikkitic
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  #2733549 24-Jun-2021 10:07
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Gurezaemon:

 

Fred99:

 

But it gets worse.  Unlike anybody else, they're allowed to practice and preach bigotry and wear that "right" as a badge of honour.  That needs to be stopped.

 

 

^This. People who start statements "As a person of faithsuperstitious belief,..." and then expect us to think that's a good thing? 

 

 

Fixed it for you.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 




Fred99
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  #2733564 24-Jun-2021 10:24
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dafman:

 

Fred99:

 

However tax laws on "charitable foundations" do actually apply to non-religious organisations - so it's picking the wrong fight.  Some better oversight of charitable organisation's activities is probably needed.

 

 

Problem is, there are large corporations, registered as charitable organisations, that are also affiliated to religious organisations - so are they tax exempt because they are a charity or a church?

 

Either way, they businesses making substantive profits and avoiding paying a fair share of tax under current regime (IMHO).

 

 

Actually I'm not sure if it matters - so long as there's clarity and oversight of what constitutes "charity".

 

I don't believe that printing bibles or building churches to "save souls" in "the missions" is even close to charity.  But it's worse, "heaven" forbid that indoctrination and mental torture of women tricked into "counselling" services offered by churches is charity, or scientologists "counselling" of people with diagnosed psychiatric illness be told that the illness they're suffering from isn't real and thus prescribed treatments should be stopped.  The list is long, not all churches are involved in such evil.
The hypocrisy of church leaders embellishing and rewarding themselves in the finest of everything whilst pretending they're preaching the examples set by Jesus is ludicrous, but "we" reward people with ludicrous riches and and deify them for playing ball sports or singing songs or making movies too, so I guess as long as people - the "fans and followers" - aren't being deliberately tricked, then that's just the way things are.


MikeB4
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  #2733566 24-Jun-2021 10:31
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Fred99:

 

 

 

Actually I'm not sure if it matters - so long as there's clarity and oversight of what constitutes "charity".

 

I don't believe that printing bibles or building churches to "save souls" in "the missions" is even close to charity.  But it's worse, "heaven" forbid that indoctrination and mental torture of women tricked into "counselling" services offered by churches is charity, or scientologists "counselling" of people with diagnosed psychiatric illness be told that the illness they're suffering from isn't real and thus prescribed treatments should be stopped.  The list is long, not all churches are involved in such evil.
The hypocrisy of church leaders embellishing and rewarding themselves in the finest of everything whilst pretending they're preaching the examples set by Jesus is ludicrous, but "we" reward people with ludicrous riches and and deify them for playing ball sports or singing songs or making movies too, so I guess as long as people - the "fans and followers" - aren't being deliberately tricked, then that's just the way things are.

 

 

I was a volunteer support person and counsellor for a church base social services I did not touch on religion at all when dealing with clients and the brief given to counsellors was that this is not to be done. Our job was support and help not missionary. I was not a member of that church and I was doing the voluntary work outside my paid employment.


Lias
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  #2733835 24-Jun-2021 14:45
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floydbloke:

 

All this debate....it's a rational and fair decision...even a 5 year old knows that spaghetti monsters can't fly.

 

 

Speaking of 5 year olds.... anyone else with me that religion should be R18?

 

Like the old joke goes.. Religion is like a penis, it's fine to have one, it's fine to show it to consenting adults, but it's not okay to wave it around in public or shove it down children's throats.. 

 

I'd really like to see it illegal to brainwash children into believing in imaginary friends (or attempting to do so). 





I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.


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