the Guardian to reveal global spying program

Forums › Off topic › the Guardian to reveal global spying program

1 | 2 | 3

6515 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2746588 19-Jul-2021 12:56

Fred99:

SaltyNZ:

There were massive protests against the GCSB and TICSA bills in 2013. The government simply didn't care.

And 6 years later when something / someone really was a threat, the agencies completely failed to pick up on it, and 51 people were slaughtered.

How much on line activity did that one person create in order that he might draw attention to himself? How well was he communicating his intention to carry out the attack or do anything that might tingle the antennae of the authorities?

My point being there is a massive amount of data to trawl through to find this stuff. At what level does someone's activity become noticeable?

In the case of the Christchurch mosque attack there were significant failings that allowed that guy to legally obtain those fire arms yet those failings have gone unaddressed, but that's another topic.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

GoodSync

GoodSync. Easily back up and sync your files with GoodSync. Simple and secure file backup and synchronisation software will ensure that your files are never lost (affiliate link).

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2746604 19-Jul-2021 13:24

Technofreak:

How much on line activity did that one person create in order that he might draw attention to himself? How well was he communicating his intention to carry out the attack or do anything that might tingle the antennae of the authorities?

Quite a lot apparently, and also financial transactions and travel patterns that *should have attracted attention.

*If the snooping agencies had been paying attention to the real threats to society.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2746608 19-Jul-2021 13:33

Technofreak:

In the case of the Christchurch mosque attack there were significant failings that allowed that guy to legally obtain those fire arms yet those failings have gone unaddressed, but that's another topic.

Well that's just not true.
So although I do not want to discuss it further with you at all - and agree it's off-topic - such an insidious lie should not remain without comment refuting it for the BS it is.

It would be good IMO if a mod could remove your comment, and if so, please also remove my reply quoting it,

Technofreak

6515 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2746875 19-Jul-2021 23:32

Fred99:

Technofreak:

In the case of the Christchurch mosque attack there were significant failings that allowed that guy to legally obtain those fire arms yet those failings have gone unaddressed, but that's another topic.

Well that's just not true.
So although I do not want to discuss it further with you at all - and agree it's off-topic - such an insidious lie should not remain without comment refuting it for the BS it is.

It would be good IMO if a mod could remove your comment, and if so, please also remove my reply quoting it,

If you or I had been as negligent as the police were in the processing the fire arms application that contributed to the mosque attack you could be sure there would have been an inquiry into our actions. There has been no such inquiry. That's what I meant by the failings have gone unaddressed.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Technofreak

6515 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2746878 19-Jul-2021 23:34

More details here. I guess this is some of the detail the Guardian is proposing to release.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2021/07/forensic-methodology-report-how-to-catch-nso-groups-pegasus/

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

dafman

3902 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2746937 20-Jul-2021 08:41

This is an excellent documentary on Pegasus spyware released a few months ago by Al Jazeera. The documentary follows an AJ journalist whose phone was targeted with Pegasus, with the infected phone analysed by Citizen Lab, an anti spyware company based in Canada. Well worth a watch!

Batman

Mad Scientist
29679 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2746938 20-Jul-2021 08:42

more information https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/19/how-does-apple-technology-hold-up-against-nso-spyware

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2746948 20-Jul-2021 08:58

Apparently the Israeli military controls the approval of sales of the spyware in the same manner as the process for export of military hardware.

A forum where I saw this being discussed turned into a wordy war zone very quickly.

I'm now too scared to express an opinion.

Shindig

1572 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2746958 20-Jul-2021 09:15

Do you reckon its on every average persons phone?

The little things make the biggest difference.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2746967 20-Jul-2021 09:33

Shindig:

Do you reckon its on every average persons phone?

No. (but it would be nice to be able to check - simply)

tripper1000

1600 posts

Uber Geek

#2746971 20-Jul-2021 09:45

Of course this isn't on the average persons phone. It is targeted at people of interest (read the links).

If you spray it around it dramatically increases the chances of detection and diminishes its effectiveness. It would become like all the other spyware that antivirus programs detect and block/remove. Stuxnet (another Israeli creation ??) was widely sprayed around resulting in it being detected and reverse engineered by non-targets, resulting in it becoming ineffective against its target (the Iranian nuclear program).

This type of phone software is nothing new. It existed on old school Nokia's etc, however it required physical access to the phone to install it.

Threads like this do my head in - a mix of people in agreeance but saying the opposite thing (??) - that government shouldn't be spying, at the same time as slamming the Govt for not pre-empting a massacre - which way do you want it? Do you want freedom or security? There is a balance to be struck. You can't have security without paying a price. You can't put obstacles in the Govt's path then complain when they don't do their job.

By the way, if you are worried, the Govt has zero interest in you - you're just not very interesting, stop being narcissistic. If you post to social media, geo tag photos, or have location sharing apps, don't be feigning concern about this software.

Handle9

11118 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2746975 20-Jul-2021 09:56

1101:

We used to look at the Communist states and think, thank god we dont have our govt spying on its citizens .

You are dreaming if you believe this was ever the case.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2747039 20-Jul-2021 10:34

tripper1000:

Threads like this do my head in - a mix of people in agreeance but saying the opposite thing (??) - that government shouldn't be spying, at the same time as slamming the Govt for not pre-empting a massacre - which way do you want it? Do you want freedom or security? There is a balance to be struck. You can't have security without paying a price. You can't put obstacles in the Govt's path then complain when they don't do their job.

Those aren't as "opposite" as you suggest.

There's a human element to "spying" - people decide who should be "spied on" - the government agencies (and whoever directed them) targeted the wrong groups while they ignored a very real threat, and can be used as an argument both for or against the concept that governments be allowed to spy.

SaltyNZ

8067 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#2747056 20-Jul-2021 10:52

Governments need to be able to spy. That's a reality. What I don't accept are two things: blanket surveillance of the population, or poor oversight of targeted surveillance. In New Zealand, as I mentioned in an earlier thread, the GCSB were so aghast at the very idea of oversight that they fought Rebecca Kitteridge every step of the way while she was investigating them under the direct authority of the Prime Minister, their boss. In more recent statements she has made I get the impression they still feel that way and to some extent continue to try to stonewall her, even though she is now directly in charge.

There are still significant weaknesses in the oversight in my opinion, in that the oversight is by those who stand to personally gain from misuse of the state spy power (e.g. the Prime Minister), and/or people directly appointed by them (e.g. Ms. Kitteridge, at present). Although I have no reason to think either the current PM or Ms. Kitteridge are up to anything dodgy it is clearly a conflict of interest to be one's own auditor.

There should be a completely independent body appointed by a supermajority of parliament to avoid the potential for conflict of interest. Plenty of retired senior judges might find it an interesting way to pass the time. And furthermore, there should be an annual public report that details how many warrants were requested, how many were approved vs. rejected, and a rough area of interest ('Foreign counterintelligence', 'White supremacy groups' etc.) so that the public can see what the agenda is to make sure that it fits where we as a country want to go.

Finally, the GCSB should be split into two organisations - one that concentrates on offense, and one that concentrates on defense. At the moment telecommunications companies are obliged to put all their security-related (i.e., basically everything) changes to the GCSB for vetting due to the TICSA act. The fact that the GCSB has an offensive mission means that you can never be 100% sure that the path they force you down is actually designed to make NZ safer, as opposed to making it easier for the GCSB to work through you to attack someone else. Since they will never do anything to earn your trust, it's a troubling issue in my opinion.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29679 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2747064 20-Jul-2021 11:12

Fred99:

Shindig:

Do you reckon its on every average persons phone?

No. (but it would be nice to be able to check - simply)

don't worry some hackers you would bet would be on to it. soon a check tool will pop up ...

1 | 2 | 3