Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 126 | 127 | 128 | 129 | 130 | 131 | 132 | 133 | 134 | 135 | 136 | ... | 139
ezbee
1807 posts

Uber Geek


  #3194428 12-Feb-2024 20:02
Send private message quote this post


The trains are Spanish, it gets pretty hot there, and they run lots of trains in heat, also high speed trains.
It seems its track design and materials as we had shallow pockets.

 

Now if Auckland Transport, or Government would pay for better trackwork. 
KiwiRAIL would be quite happy to put it in I expect, no downside for them.

 

There has been an upgrade program partly complete with major disruption to services for extended periods. 
Nothing about if heat problems are part of reason for this, so something this fixes.
https://at.govt.nz/bus-train-ferry/train-services/rail-network-rebuild/about-the-rail-network-rebuild/

 

Hopefully its old areas and upgrade fixes, though news article does not say anything on this.


Bung
5575 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #3194438 12-Feb-2024 21:33
Send private message quote this post

neb:  Must be a Kiwirail special, trains in Europe don't blink at 35+ degree temps, I don't know what the track temperatures are like but I assume they'd be the same as here. I assume Kiwirail is saving the "wrong kind of snow" excuse for an extra special occasion. Or the wrong kind of sunlight.

 

With continuously welded rail you have to pick a temperature range when the rail is being installed and prestress the track to suit. If the rail is hotter it gets longer and could buckle, colder it shrinks and could break. The acceptable variation depends on the way the track is ballasted. Apparently spraying the rail with white paint in summer to reduce heat build up is a thing in some countries.

 

"Some countries’ railways are able to cope with such high temperature variation by using solid concrete slabs to contain the higher forces created. But slab tracks costs approximately four times as much to install as standard ballasted track."


sir1963
2362 posts

Uber Geek


  #3194439 12-Feb-2024 21:36
Send private message quote this post

Bung:

 

neb:  Must be a Kiwirail special, trains in Europe don't blink at 35+ degree temps, I don't know what the track temperatures are like but I assume they'd be the same as here. I assume Kiwirail is saving the "wrong kind of snow" excuse for an extra special occasion. Or the wrong kind of sunlight.

 

With continuously welded rail you have to pick a temperature range when the rail is being installed and prestress the track to suit. If the rail is hotter it gets longer and could buckle, colder it shrinks and could break. The acceptable variation depends on the way the track is ballasted. Apparently spraying the rail with white paint in summer to reduce heat build up is a thing in some countries.

 

"Some countries’ railways are able to cope with such high temperature variation by using solid concrete slabs to contain the higher forces created. But slab tracks costs approximately four times as much to install as standard ballasted track."

 

 

 

 

What we need is hyperloop ๐Ÿ˜‚

 

 


neb

neb

9055 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3194440 12-Feb-2024 21:48
Send private message quote this post

sir1963:

What we need is hyperloop ๐Ÿ˜‚

 

 

Why are you using the Musk spelling with the superfluous 'r'?

elpenguino
2972 posts

Uber Geek


  #3194521 13-Feb-2024 09:05
Send private message quote this post

neb:
ezbee:

 

Trains cancelled across Auckland due to ‘heat’
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/trains-cancelled-across-auckland-due-to-heat/FTQVJQEM5ZD4ZNTYHMUCGUNWOA/

""
“Some train services on Eastern, Western, and Southern lines have been cancelled due to weather (heat) conditions,” Auckland Transport posted to social media.

 

Must be a Kiwirail special, trains in Europe don't blink at 35+ degree temps, I don't know what the track temperatures are like but I assume they'd be the same as here. I assume Kiwirail is saving the "wrong kind of snow" excuse for an extra special occasion. Or the wrong kind of sunlight.

 

I was tempted to agree with you but then I remembered I saw this video. It talks about welding train tracks which removes the expansion gaps. 

 

IIRC To weld tracks without expansion joints the tracks are stretched to their 'hot' length. I'm thinking kiwirail might not have done this to their network and other networks have ? 

 

https://youtu.be/zqmOSMAtadc

 

 





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


  #3194780 13-Feb-2024 17:08
Send private message quote this post

elpenguino:

 

I was tempted to agree with you but then I remembered I saw this video. It talks about welding train tracks which removes the expansion gaps. 

 

IIRC To weld tracks without expansion joints the tracks are stretched to their 'hot' length. I'm thinking kiwirail might not have done this to their network and other networks have ? 

 

https://youtu.be/zqmOSMAtadc

 

 

As per above, the issue is probably not just that you have to stretch them or weld them on a hot day, but the requirement to define 'hot'. There's (hopefully) a design temperature, and it was presumably exceeded. Raising that design temperature increases the amount of work (pre-heating/pre-stressing) that has to be done to lay or join rail, and also raises the stresses in the rail at cooler temperature. There are presumably ways to deal with this and we've probably been able to avoid the more extreme options in the past.

 

As things heat up and peak temperatures become more spiky, expect more and more infrastructure to fail/be capacity limited due to heat stress on the hottest of days. Wellington had issues with fixed tension overhead (essentially obsolete worldwide) because of the same issues: cables get tight and break/pull things over in the cold, and get loose and sag in the heat. Balance weight tension solves this, and has been rolled out in many areas, but it costs money.


elpenguino
2972 posts

Uber Geek


  #3194786 13-Feb-2024 17:27
Send private message quote this post

Bung:

 

neb:  Must be a Kiwirail special, trains in Europe don't blink at 35+ degree temps, I don't know what the track temperatures are like but I assume they'd be the same as here. I assume Kiwirail is saving the "wrong kind of snow" excuse for an extra special occasion. Or the wrong kind of sunlight.

 

With continuously welded rail you have to pick a temperature range when the rail is being installed and prestress the track to suit. If the rail is hotter it gets longer and could buckle, colder it shrinks and could break. The acceptable variation depends on the way the track is ballasted. Apparently spraying the rail with white paint in summer to reduce heat build up is a thing in some countries.

 

"Some countries’ railways are able to cope with such high temperature variation by using solid concrete slabs to contain the higher forces created. But slab tracks costs approximately four times as much to install as standard ballasted track."

 

 

How did I miss your post from the night before mine that discusses the same topic ? What the ......





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


frankv
5628 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #3194995 14-Feb-2024 10:58
Send private message quote this post

SomeoneSomewhere:

 

Raising that design temperature increases the amount of work (pre-heating/pre-stressing) that has to be done to lay or join rail, and also raises the stresses in the rail at cooler temperature.

 

 

Or, to put it another way, we've saved money in the short term, without thinking about the long-term. Just like roads. Just like Auckland public transport.

 

 


richms
26589 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #3195016 14-Feb-2024 11:35
Send private message quote this post

Perhaps they should water cool the tracks or something.





Richard rich.ms

freitasm
BDFL - Memuneh
76827 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator
ID Verified
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  #3195031 14-Feb-2024 12:20
Send private message quote this post

You mean, like rain? /joke





Please support Geekzone by subscribing, or using one of our referral links: Dosh referral: 00001283 | Sharesies | Goodsync | Mighty Ape | Backblaze

 

freitasm on Keybase | My technology disclosure

 

 

 

 

 

 


jamesrt
1439 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #3195054 14-Feb-2024 13:49
Send private message quote this post

richms:

 

Perhaps they should water cool the tracks or something.

 

 

We don't have enough spare water in Wellington - unfortunately, this is NOT a joke.


geoffwnz
1298 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

  #3195056 14-Feb-2024 13:50
Send private message quote this post

jamesrt:

 

richms:

 

Perhaps they should water cool the tracks or something.

 

 

We don't have enough spare water in Wellington - unfortunately, this is NOT a joke.

 

 

Just pipe all the leaks to the tracks.  Sorted.





cshwone
1020 posts

Uber Geek


  #3195060 14-Feb-2024 14:03
Send private message quote this post

SomeoneSomewhere:

 

elpenguino:

 

I was tempted to agree with you but then I remembered I saw this video. It talks about welding train tracks which removes the expansion gaps. 

 

IIRC To weld tracks without expansion joints the tracks are stretched to their 'hot' length. I'm thinking kiwirail might not have done this to their network and other networks have ? 

 

https://youtu.be/zqmOSMAtadc

 

 

As per above, the issue is probably not just that you have to stretch them or weld them on a hot day, but the requirement to define 'hot'. There's (hopefully) a design temperature, and it was presumably exceeded. Raising that design temperature increases the amount of work (pre-heating/pre-stressing) that has to be done to lay or join rail, and also raises the stresses in the rail at cooler temperature. There are presumably ways to deal with this and we've probably been able to avoid the more extreme options in the past.

 

As things heat up and peak temperatures become more spiky, expect more and more infrastructure to fail/be capacity limited due to heat stress on the hottest of days. Wellington had issues with fixed tension overhead (essentially obsolete worldwide) because of the same issues: cables get tight and break/pull things over in the cold, and get loose and sag in the heat. Balance weight tension solves this, and has been rolled out in many areas, but it costs money.

 

 

This is not new. The Wairarapa line has had these track heat issues for years


elpenguino
2972 posts

Uber Geek


  #3195064 14-Feb-2024 14:11
Send private message quote this post

geoffwnz:

 

jamesrt:

 

We don't have enough spare water in Wellington - unfortunately, this is NOT a joke.

 

 

Just pipe all the leaks to the tracks.  Sorted.

 

 

It's this kind of lateral thinking which is missing from local politics. Please stand in the next election cycle.





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


geoffwnz
1298 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

  #3195065 14-Feb-2024 14:16
Send private message quote this post

elpenguino:

 

It's this kind of lateral thinking which is missing from local politics. Please stand in the next election cycle.

 

 

@#$%^&* NO. 





1 | ... | 126 | 127 | 128 | 129 | 130 | 131 | 132 | 133 | 134 | 135 | 136 | ... | 139
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



News and reviews »

Synology Introduces BeeStation
Posted 23-Feb-2024 14:14


New One UI 6.1 Update Brings Galaxy AI to More Galaxy Devices
Posted 23-Feb-2024 10:50


Amazon Echo Hub Available in New Zealand
Posted 23-Feb-2024 10:40


InternetNZ Releases Internet Insights 2023
Posted 20-Feb-2024 10:31


Seagate Adds 24TB IronWolf Pro Hard Drives for Multi-user Commercial and Enterprise RAID Storage Solutions
Posted 19-Feb-2024 16:54


Seagate Skyhawk AI 24TB Elevates Edge Security Capacity and Performance
Posted 9-Feb-2024 17:18


GoPro Releases Quik Desktop App for macOS and Introduces Premium+ Subscription Tier
Posted 9-Feb-2024 17:14


Ring Introduces New Ring Battery Video Doorbell Pro
Posted 9-Feb-2024 16:51


Galaxy AI Transforms the new Galaxy S24 Series
Posted 18-Jan-2024 07:00


D-Link launches AI-Powered Aquila Pro M30 Wi-Fi 6 Mesh Systems
Posted 17-Jan-2024 20:02


Newest LG 4K Lifestyle Projector Doubles as Art Objet
Posted 9-Jan-2024 15:50


More LG Smart TV Owners Set To Enjoy the Latest webOS Upgrade
Posted 9-Jan-2024 15:45


Panasonic Announces the Z95A and Z93A With Fire TV Built In
Posted 9-Jan-2024 15:30


Amazon Echo Pop Review
Posted 8-Jan-2024 14:22


Samsung Tab S9 FE Review
Posted 17-Dec-2023 08:26



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.