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GV27
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  #2921125 31-May-2022 20:42
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Handle9:

People work with people they know. It’s not just an NZ thing.

 

There's a personal referral for a position from someone you know and then there's short-cutting the recruitment process or not properly checking references, qualifications etc. One is shoulder-tapping and networking, the other is not doing your job.

 

It remains to be seen if this is the former or the latter, but given confidentiality clauses, settlements and agreed references exist, it may well be a case of both! But given the comments from Simon Power it seems like due process wasn't followed and it will be interesting to find out why.

 

TVNZ's conduct and public-facing comments that are clearly not quite at the level of transparency one expects from a state broadcaster indicate some broader issues with corporate culture, perhaps unbefitting of a new super-state broadcaster. Entirely in keeping with the tradition of one, maybe, but we should expect better. That's a separate issue altogether. 


eracode
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  #2921128 31-May-2022 21:08
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gzt:

 

eracode: I think this is not so much about what he’s been accused of - more about the processes (or lack thereof) surrounding his hiring - which is a different issue.

 

 


The hiring is one thing. The speculated cause is potentially a serious workplace safety issue so there is a general interest too in how this was handled.

 

 

Yes of course you’re right - there may be a workplace safety issue. However the title of this thread is: “Government asks TVNZ's board to confirm hiring process of Kamahl Santamaria was proper” - not “Investigation into workplace behaviour of a TVNZ presenter”.

 

These are two different issues. There might still be a need to look at the process of his recruitment even if there was no behaviour issue.

 

This thread started off looking at the first issue then morphed OT to being about the second issue. 





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quickymart
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  #2921140 31-May-2022 21:43
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Maybe a subject/title change for this thread wouldn't go amiss? @freitasm ?




Eva888
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  #2921151 31-May-2022 23:44
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Did this man commit something violent, if so prove it, let the law deal with him and throw him in jail. Did he flirt or write an email someone deemed inappropriate...you can bet his career and life have been ruined forever and he has such an innocent baby face too. The perpetrator here is guilty first until proven innocent by which time you may as well tar and feather him before he goes to his next job interview. Good luck there.

Now very un PC of me I know but... the email I read was a man making compliments to try and get noticed. It’s subjective whether it was appropriate or not. Some might have seen it as complimentary and a giggle, others may have been insulted. It’s an email...lighten up and deal with it ladies, don’t make it an international event.

In this day and age I pity any man trying to catch the interest of a woman he likes. The path is so full of pitfalls that almost any semblance of interest can be misconstrued by the recipient and the risks to the man are extreme and a life sentence, never forgotten.

Hands up all the men who are scared of saying or doing the wrong thing in front of a female they like and actually have no idea anymore where to start to make a connection. IMHO Men have been emasculated. Now even writing to someone that you admire can be seen as harassment and land you in court. It’s no wonder the world wide birth rate is falling, at this rate we will become as extinct as the Moa.

Back in the days when I could still turn a head or two our mothers taught us how to deal with unwanted advances. It wasn’t seen as criminal rather than human nature and men trying it on. Flirting was a game people played and giving a too ardent suitor a swift slap wasn’t assault it was part of the acceptable course of courting. (Watch some old movies for guidance.) Now the word sexual harassment is pegged to any such actions at the blink of longing glance.

We’ve all now become so very proper and judgemental it’s killed all the impetuousness and mischief that spices up life.









quickymart
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  #2921153 1-Jun-2022 00:10
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I guess you missed the part about him forcing himself on a junior colleague and kissing her against her will, forcing her to hide in the toilets whenever he was around. I guess that's just a normal part of workplace life, right? 🙄

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300601641/lewd-email-and-kiss-attempts-of-extvnz-host-kamahl-santamaria-revealed

 

Yep he was a real catch, all right - keeping on at her when she didn't want him to go near her. What do you seriously think would have happened to her if she had slapped him in the workplace?

 

Oh and did I mention he was married, too? Would you consider that all perfectly fine as well?

 

/s


GV27
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  #2921163 1-Jun-2022 07:17
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Eva888: Hands up all the men who are scared of saying or doing the wrong thing in front of a female they like and actually have no idea anymore where to start to make a connection. IMHO Men have been emasculated. Now even writing to someone that you admire can be seen as harassment and land you in court. It’s no wonder the world wide birth rate is falling, at this rate we will become as extinct as the Moa.

 

Hands up all men who can't measure the basic risks of being extremely aggressive with women you work with? 

 

The birth rate is falling because living costs are through the roof, not because you're not allowed to send dick pics to your interns. 


quickymart
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  #2921194 1-Jun-2022 08:36
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^ agreed. Just because things were "all normal and good" a long time ago doesn't make it right today. If you really want to go down that road, slavery used to be "all normal and good" in the US as well - thank God that's not the case anymore.

 

In my opinion the person at TVNZ who hired him (that Paul guy) should fall on his sword already, I think there was obvious cronyism happening with his appointment to the role.




alasta
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  #2921197 1-Jun-2022 08:44
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Eva888: In this day and age I pity any man trying to catch the interest of a woman he likes. The path is so full of pitfalls that almost any semblance of interest can be misconstrued by the recipient and the risks to the man are extreme and a life sentence, never forgotten.

Hands up all the men who are scared of saying or doing the wrong thing in front of a female they like and actually have no idea anymore where to start to make a connection. IMHO Men have been emasculated. Now even writing to someone that you admire can be seen as harassment and land you in court. It’s no wonder the world wide birth rate is falling, at this rate we will become as extinct as the Moa.

 

As a lifelong bachelor this is hardly my area of expertise, but even I find it pretty easy to understand the concept of keeping your work life and personal life separate. 


alasta
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  #2921200 1-Jun-2022 08:47
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quickymart:

 

In my opinion the person at TVNZ who hired him (that Paul guy) should fall on his sword already, I think there was obvious cronyism happening with his appointment to the role.

 

 

I think it's likely that the problem runs even deeper than that. I don't have any inside knowledge but these things are usually symptomatic of a fundamentally broken organisational culture. 

 

The government's planned merger of TVNZ/RNZ won't fix the problem, but now they have a convenient excuse to pursue the merger for political reasons. 


  #2921207 1-Jun-2022 09:00
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What interests me is why TVNZ News has been going so hard on this - it was the lead story in their main 6pm bulletin.
I'm not saying they should have ignored it, it's certainly a local news story of some interest to the public. However "minor TV 'celebrity' male alleged to have behaved badly, said to have had prior form, so should never have been hired" certainly doesn't seem to me like a story to lead the main national News bulletin of the day. It doesn't obviously meet the "if it bleeds, it leads" criterion.

 

Is it that they're (over) keen to demonstrate how fearless and independent they are in investigating their own organisation?
Maybe they're just organisationally so self-obsessed that they think this is the most important issue of the day?
Or is there some other organisational politics at work here? Is there maybe a faction within the TVNZ News organisation that has grasped this as an opportunity to clean out some senior management and/or the HR department?
Or what?

 

It just seems oddly out of proportion to me


elpenguino
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  #2921210 1-Jun-2022 09:04
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quickymart:

 

I guess you missed the part about him forcing himself on a junior colleague and kissing her against her will, forcing her to hide in the toilets whenever he was around. I guess that's just a normal part of workplace life, right? 🙄

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300601641/lewd-email-and-kiss-attempts-of-extvnz-host-kamahl-santamaria-revealed

 

Yep he was a real catch, all right - keeping on at her when she didn't want him to go near her. What do you seriously think would have happened to her if she had slapped him in the workplace?

 

Oh and did I mention he was married, too? Would you consider that all perfectly fine as well?

 

/s

 

 

The power imbalance in the situation, mentioned in the linked article, is a big clue that what was going on was bad.

 

 





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


Handsomedan
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  #2921240 1-Jun-2022 09:49
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PolicyGuy:

 

What interests me is why TVNZ News has been going so hard on this - it was the lead story in their main 6pm bulletin.
I'm not saying they should have ignored it, it's certainly a local news story of some interest to the public. However "minor TV 'celebrity' male alleged to have behaved badly, said to have had prior form, so should never have been hired" certainly doesn't seem to me like a story to lead the main national News bulletin of the day. It doesn't obviously meet the "if it bleeds, it leads" criterion.

 

Is it that they're (over) keen to demonstrate how fearless and independent they are in investigating their own organisation?
Maybe they're just organisationally so self-obsessed that they think this is the most important issue of the day?
Or is there some other organisational politics at work here? Is there maybe a faction within the TVNZ News organisation that has grasped this as an opportunity to clean out some senior management and/or the HR department?
Or what?

 

It just seems oddly out of proportion to me

 

 

Agree. 

 

He was a host (briefly) on a morning fluff show. 

 

It's not bigger than Ukraine or the PM visiting the US or a plethora of other actual news items, yet is headline news for One News. 

 

It's definitely a bit odd. 





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Eva888
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  #2921304 1-Jun-2022 10:25
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Having personally experienced behaviour many years ago that today would be frowned upon and successfully nipped it in the bud with humour, firmness and without ruining the persons entire life I am probably in a position to comment first hand on such matters and can confirm in my own case, no life long trauma or flashbacks, nor thoughts of suing the wealthiest one many years on.

Apart from the evidence of a suggestive email the rest of the linked story is her interpretation of events and how she felt and dealt with it. It would be fair to hear and publish both sides of the story. No mention of him being married at the time. He was reigned in and didn’t bother her again but she feels trauma and flashbacks till this day.

As for him being a good catch, ok he’s not Prince H but the sort of money presenters make would definitely put him in that category from the perspective of someone looking for 'a catch,' and I’m sure he had plenty of unwanted attention of his own to deal with. Maybe he should leak some of his stories to the press.

Gosh did I condone slapping... it was anecdotal to how situations were dealt with in the past (insert grin) much of the post was served lightly with a reasonable smatter of truth. However most of the above is off topic since the original topic is about the hiring process and not the man's prowess and flirting history.

Of course I don’t think it’s perfectly fine for married people to act inappropriately. Mr E would be firmly dealt with if he tried this and his remaining years made suitably miserable till death do us part.

* Curiously I see my post supports no longer exist and wonder if I’ve sinned against FUG or is it a glitch. Everyone else seems to have one.




quickymart
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  #2921318 1-Jun-2022 10:36
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Right, but what about if she didn't feel comfortable confronting him? It sounds like she didn't (I certainly don't enjoy confrontation) - and you're missing the point that elpenguino made that there was a power imbalance; she was a junior staffer and he was a senior anchor, who was married (or at least in a long-term committed relationship with his future wife) at the time. He may have been "reigned in" but that resulted in him sulking (my interpretation) and never speaking to her again. What if they had had to work side by side on the news desk presenting, or something similar? He should have behaved more professionally - and he should have known better. Also as Mike says, maybe she didn't feel comfortable confronting him about it for fear of retribution - a situation I've been in myself previously as well, so I can also speak "from experience" on that one.

 

* I never noticed any support for your post - and I checked this thread early this morning too.

 

Sorry for my rant but I don't have a lot of patience for sex pest apologists.

 

 


MikeB4
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  #2921319 1-Jun-2022 10:36
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Eva888: Having personally experienced behaviour many years ago that today would be frowned upon and successfully nipped it in the bud with humour, firmness and without ruining the persons entire life I am probably in a position to comment first hand on such matters and can confirm in my own case, no life long trauma or flashbacks, nor thoughts of suing the wealthiest one many years on.

Apart from the evidence of a suggestive email the rest of the linked story is her interpretation of events and how she felt and dealt with it. It would be fair to hear and publish both sides of the story. No mention of him being married at the time. He was reigned in and didn’t bother her again but she feels trauma and flashbacks till this day.

As for him being a good catch, ok he’s not Prince H but the sort of money presenters make would definitely put him in that category from the perspective of someone looking for 'a catch,' and I’m sure he had plenty of unwanted attention of his own to deal with. Maybe he should leak some of his stories to the press.

Gosh did I condone slapping... it was anecdotal to how situations were dealt with in the past (insert grin) much of the post was served lightly with a reasonable smatter of truth. However most of the above is off topic since the original topic is about the hiring process and not the man's prowess and flirting history.

Of course I don’t think it’s perfectly fine for married people to act inappropriately. Mr E would be firmly dealt with if he tried this and his remaining years made suitably miserable till death do us part.

* Curiously I see my post supports no longer exist and wonder if I’ve sinned against FUG or is it a glitch. Everyone else seems to have one.



 

The behaviour is unacceptable. There are a lot of people subjected to this garbage that do not have the ability to fight back or take action without retribution. It must be stomped on immediately. The victim does not ruin the perpetrators life and or career the perpetrator does that and I have no sympathy for them. 


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