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  Reply # 193781 3-Feb-2009 19:53
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GeekGuy: Firing shots like they did while innocent bystanders are near, is not very professional. I do not have a problem with that person needing to be shot but doing it while people are around him is not a very good judgement call on there part.


You are failing to grasp the basics here, if they could have waited for a "clean shot" I'm sure they would have. As events transpired they had to take a shot when they did or the victim may have either been kidnapped or shot by the offender or the police themselves may have been shot. How long do you expect them to wait, perhaps wait for him to fire off a couple more shots at them or others?

If the police didn't have a clean shot are you saying they should have let him drive away with a hostage???

And we don't even know at this stage how the victim was shot. It could have passed through the offender first or it could have been a ricochet.


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  Reply # 193800 3-Feb-2009 20:42
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i still feel that no matter what all the reports find, who shot him, how they shot, weather it was through the offender or what ever the circumstances, i still belive that the only person that should be punished for Halatau Naitokos death should the crazy guy on P.if he never started this chase, if he gave up when told to, Halatau Naitoko would still be alive.

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  Reply # 193812 3-Feb-2009 21:20
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Johnk: i still feel that no matter what all the reports find, who shot him, how they shot, weather it was through the offender or what ever the circumstances, i still belive that the only person that should be punished for Halatau Naitokos death should the crazy guy on P.if he never started this chase, if he gave up when told to, Halatau Naitoko would still be alive.


Too right.

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Reply # 193817 3-Feb-2009 21:33
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couldn't he have just waited until backup arrives or moved onto the other side of the road or even better shot out the innocently killed mans tyres and then followed on to apprehend the baddy? thats something angelina coulda handled. sorry not very mature

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  Reply # 193821 3-Feb-2009 21:38
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crikarika: couldn't he have just waited until backup arrives or moved onto the other side of the road or even better shot out the innocently killed mans tyres and then followed on to apprehend the baddy? thats something angelina coulda handled. sorry not very mature


Thats exactly what should have happened.No hang on, what he should have done is got alongside the speeding car and jumped onto it's bonnet using the windscreen wipers to hang on to. He could have then punched out the windshield, climbed into the car and shoved the offender out the door onto the road....oh hang on that was Terminator 3.

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  Reply # 193830 3-Feb-2009 22:08
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theres no other way to do it then with some over the top action sequence from a movie especially if you're gona go to jail for it.im not making light of the guys death, it's still sad. i suppose its one of those things you think would never happen to you. i was gona say in new zealand, but things liek this are becoming very regular occurrences.
GOD NEW ZEALAND WHY ARE YOU SO UPSET AT EVERY LITTLE THING. ohh a lady breastfeeding better report her. oh people camping on the beach better repoort them. were gona have nothing to do because weve all gotten too strict and protective.
EDIT:sorry dehydrated  its late and im just ranting about nothing in paticular. dosent mean it wasnt true

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  Reply # 193883 4-Feb-2009 08:15
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Dratsab:
BurningBeard: Oftentimes when I see people shot by cops, for some reason, the dogs are never bought in.

That's because there's generally not much to be gained by dogging them after they've been shot!! Laughing


LoL, before-hand.
Like the guy in ChCh a couple of years ago who was shot dead for weilding a hammer (at a distance). They don't necessarily have all the training required to take down an armed person without non-lethally.

A guy I know dealt with a home intruder using martial arts; VERY basic self defence stuff... the police officer admitted, "We're not trained to do that sort of stuff."




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  Reply # 193887 4-Feb-2009 08:30
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BurningBeard:
Dratsab:
BurningBeard: Oftentimes when I see people shot by cops, for some reason, the dogs are never bought in.

That's because there's generally not much to be gained by dogging them after they've been shot!! Laughing


LoL, before-hand.
Like the guy in ChCh a couple of years ago who was shot dead for weilding a hammer (at a distance). They don't necessarily have all the training required to take down an armed person without non-lethally.

A guy I know dealt with a home intruder using martial arts; VERY basic self defence stuff... the police officer admitted, "We're not trained to do that sort of stuff."


There are so many variables with every incident it is very hard to come up with a set of hard and fast rules that would work everytime. Most of the time things will change at a rapid pace and the police have to react to it as quickly as possible.

If the police got a call similar to the one above about the guy weilding a hammer a dog would be called - if available, which is not always the case. If he is smashing property or making threats firearms would normally be issued. You then have to consider their position when confronting the offender. Do they shoot? Do they try and talk him down? Do they try to overpower him? All are options that can be used but not in every scenario. Imagine an armed officer taking on a hammer weilding offender with empty hand tactics and then the offender pulls a knife out of his back pocket, suddenly he's got two weapons. He then harms the police officer, takes his firearms and then god knows what.

My own personal views are that if you use a weapon of any description to harm someone/damage property and when police arrive you continue to be a threat to other persons including the attending officers then you deserve to be shot. I wouldn't want to live in a society that has it any other way.

It won't always work out for the best but thats how life goes. The police do their best in extremely difficult situations, most of which 99% of the public they assist will never have to face or even witness.

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  Reply # 193900 4-Feb-2009 09:22
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Johnk: i still feel that no matter what all the reports find, who shot him, how they shot, weather it was through the offender or what ever the circumstances, i still belive that the only person that should be punished for Halatau Naitokos death should the crazy guy on P.if he never started this chase, if he gave up when told to, Halatau Naitoko would still be alive.

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  Reply # 193905 4-Feb-2009 09:44
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BurningBeard: They don't necessarily have all the training required to take down an armed person without non-lethally.


That is exactly why police should all be equipped with Tasers. There currently is no option but lethal force when faced with an offender. CS spray does not work on people who are off their face or mentally impaired (which is probably 90% + of violent offenders confronted by Police in armed situations).

Given the choice of being tastered, shot or CS sprayed I'd take the taser any time.



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  Reply # 193907 4-Feb-2009 09:53
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sbiddle:
BurningBeard: They don't necessarily have all the training required to take down an armed person without non-lethally.


That is exactly why police should all be equipped with Tasers. There currently is no option but lethal force when faced with an offender. CS spray does not work on people who are off their face or mentally impaired (which is probably 90% + of violent offenders confronted by Police in armed situations).

Given the choice of being tastered, shot or CS sprayed I'd take the taser any time.




Very good point.

If police are faced with someone high on meth who has a lethal weapon the only choice unless the offender can be contained would be the use of a firearm. Unfortunately this often results in death although police do shoot to incapacitate not to kill.

When attending a job armed there is a gaping hole in tactics available between spray and firearms which a taser would fill nicely.

I also note that the people who are so vocal in opposition to tasers become extremely quiet when someone who is tasered who would have been otherwise shot. As usual they have a lot to say about their civil liberties but no actual solutions to deal with the issues police face.


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  Reply # 193918 4-Feb-2009 10:19
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If the police got a call similar to the one above about the guy weilding a hammer a dog would be called - if available, which is not always the case. If he is smashing property or making threats firearms would normally be issued.


Yeah he was smashing up cars.

They fired four shots. Two hit him. Nobody ever said where the other two went!

I heard it all too. My neighbourhood sucks!




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  Reply # 193923 4-Feb-2009 10:26
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The other interesting thing is about police issue pistols is they are really only useful when the offender is within 7m. Keep in mind that if you move the barrel of a pistol just a few mm right or left you could miss a target completely at about 10m. Imagine how hard it is when you have someone running at you with a weapon or shooting at you. It's amazing that BURTON got hit at all in Wellington because that shot was at about 15m. They certainly wouldn't have been aiming for his leg.

The rifle (Bushmaster) is a lot better and a lot more accurate, however it would be nice if they were all fitted with scopes instead of the open sights they currently have.

Probably a money thing at the end of the day.

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  Reply # 193939 4-Feb-2009 11:26
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marmel:
I also note that the people who are so vocal in opposition to tasers become extremely quiet when someone who is tasered who would have been otherwise shot. As usual they have a lot to say about their civil liberties but no actual solutions to deal with the issues police face.



It's interesting to see that in Australia that the public want Police equipped with Tasers but it's something that hasn't yet happened. Police shootings are a lot more common over there and in particularly after the shooting of the boy in Melbourne there are lots of questions being asked as to why it's taking to long to actually begin a rollout.



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  Reply # 194387 5-Feb-2009 22:46
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hey i was looking in the newspapers and on tv and they always blur the armed offenders squad members faces, even ones not relating to any crime that happend but where the aos were called out and it was a false alarm. is there a law that newspapers and broadcasters aren't allowed to show aos member's faces? if there is, does it mean bloggers can't put photos of the unblurred faces of aos members on their website?

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