Avatar: The Way of Water

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gehenna

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#3007699 9-Dec-2022 11:41

I heard some discussion yesterday that the HFR in this film is during the action scenes, while dialogue etc is 24fps. That could make for an interesting compromise for most people. Even people who don't know a lot about tech or film in my social circle hate the jaggies that come with standard frame rate during fast action scenes, but also hate the telenovela look of the usual motion interpolation on TVs.

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Paul1977

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#3007728 9-Dec-2022 14:15

gehenna:

Difficult to agree with this given the tiny number of HFR movies that have been released to date, especially in comparison to the huge number of 3D movies that came out over the years. I'd argue people rejected The Hobbit trilogy for other reasons. I also don't think 3D was rejected by the audience. 3D went from being expensive but high quality product because it needed to be shot in 3D end-to-end, to a cheap and poor product because they started doing post-conversions of standard 2D content. It's that cheapening of the product that destroyed the market for 3D IMO. Content shot in 3D is still highly regarded among viewers. But most viewers with more than a tangential knowledge of 3D will avoid a post-converted film over something filmed in 3D.

I'd say the reason so few have been released is because that for the few that were people didn't like it. Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk was filmed in 120fps and it just doesn't look like a "movie" (note I haven't seen it in 3D).

But I'm definitely open to the possibility that HFR in 3D might be a whole different level of emersion. But in 2D it's a big nope for me.

EDIT: To add the 4K Blu-ray version of Billy Lynn I saw was at 60fps, not the original 120fps.

GV27

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#3007734 9-Dec-2022 14:51

I love HFR and I don't get why it's off limits as far as film goes.

gehenna

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#3008355 11-Dec-2022 01:43

Ditto. It's time to get past 24fps and stop conflating hfr with poorly implemented motion interpolation. We have been gaming in 60fps for years now and going back to 30 feels like stop motion. So it is with fmv to my eye.

Again I'd argue that there were other reasons Billy Lynn was a failure, hfr was just an unfortunate bystander imo. I will agree that there isn't much point to hfr in film without 3d. It does make the 3d experience much clearer and therefore more immersive. I would have a hard time picking some 2d films that would benefit. Top Gun Maverick maybe. Something with action that is otherwise difficult to follow etc

Behodar

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#3008381 11-Dec-2022 09:09

In some cases things look worse than they should because some filmmakers just don't know what they're doing. For example, there's a formula for how quickly you can pan a camera, based on how far away the object you're supposed to be looking at is. Pan too quickly and a significant proportion of viewers can't focus on the object. That formula has been around for decades, yet in the past ten or so years it's often been completely ignored.

gehenna

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#3008425 11-Dec-2022 13:12

The end result is the same. If the filmmakers are doing something different now then the tech needs to follow suit. I assume part of the change is that virtual cameras are used in CG now.

Movieman

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#3018520 8-Jan-2023 10:18

James Cameron believes that AVATAR: The Way of Water will break even and is confident that Disney will proceed with the sequels. SOURCE

Box Office takings for 2022 were the highest of the year (1,558,195,379), beating TOP GUN: Maverick into second place.

Although nothing has been officially confirmed, some people are predicting a Disney Plus release before the end of January, which seems to me to be a little early. We shall see.

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mudguard

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#3018526 8-Jan-2023 10:43

gehenna: Ditto. It's time to get past 24fps and stop conflating hfr with poorly implemented motion interpolation. We have been gaming in 60fps for years now and going back to 30 feels like stop motion. So it is with fmv to my eye.

I think the problem will be that 24 fps is still what we see everyday, I faff around a bit with GoPros and my Sony cameras and generally unless I have a specific need to, I always stick to 24fps.

We saw Avatar on Friday. I quite enjoyed despite knowing how long it was, no coffee, coke or beer for me! I think it's pretty easy to over analyse a film like that so I just relaxed and tried to not nit pick. I am growing a little weary for war tropes as genre now.

We watched in 3D but was surprised to see about half the audience not wearing the glasses, I slipped the glasses up a few times and seeing a 3D film without the glasses looked pretty nasty, all the background colour looked terrible, a little how AI does shallow depth of field.

Senecio

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#3018565 8-Jan-2023 13:47

We watched it yesterday as the weather was still poor so outside activities were off the cards. Watched it in a 3D and HFR cinema.

I thought the HFR was good but it was quite jarring going back and forth between 24 and 48fps. I'd like to see more HFR content, I think its good that more directors are willing to experiment with it more.

Paul1977

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#3019361 10-Jan-2023 00:38

Finally went and saw this.

Very pretty to look at, and a technical marvel in many respects… but let down terribly by a very weak script with several large plot holes (and one pretty major retcon). But worse than that, I found a lot of it quite boring. I don’t mind a long (even slow) movie if it’s good, but a long movie with a weak script makes for a hard slog.

I’m normally not a fan of HFR, I tend to find it makes things look very “uncinematic” to my eyes. However; I think the HFR does improve the 3D in this film, but still kind of results in it looking like a really good video game cutscene rather than a movie (to me any way) - but it didn’t bother me like it does in 2D. I did find the constant switching between 24fps and HFR annoying though - they needed to pick one and do the whole film at the same frame rate (with the amount of money they spent on this movie, they should have done the entire thing in HFR).

gzt

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#3019723 10-Jan-2023 19:01

constant switching between 24fps and HFR

I'd like to know the reason behind this. Director can't rent enough HFR cameras? some shots failed in HFR so director used downscale?

Movieman

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#3047277 8-Mar-2023 10:56

Disney have just announced that AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER will be released on Digital on March 28th. No Disney Plus or physical media release announced yet. This implies that Disney are gonna squeeze every last cent out of this release 🤑

The Digital release will include over three hours of bonus content, and will have Dolby Atmos audio on board.

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