Smash and grabs at MHJ

Forums › Off topic › Smash and grabs at MHJ

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#3079795 26-May-2023 13:32

Paul1977:

Fear of consequences has always been a necessary part of maintaining law and order. Since the consequences to youth offenders are so light they have no reason to fear them, the natural result is a lot of youth crime.

Of course there are other contributing factors, but none of them change the fact that if serious crimes don't have serious consequences they will continue.

It really is that simple. Human nature is human nature. If you can get free stuff without having to do hard work and there is no practical reason not to, someone is going to steal it.

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MikeAqua

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#3079796 26-May-2023 13:40

Does anyone else wonder if there are adults sitting behind the kids doing these ram raids, pulling the strings? Especially when you see a number of ram raids in the same night in the same city. When that happens it seems organised. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Mike

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#3079797 26-May-2023 13:52

MikeAqua:

Does anyone else wonder if there are adults sitting behind the kids doing these ram raids, pulling the strings? Especially when you see a number of ram raids in the same night in the same city. When that happens it seems organised. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Almost certainly in some cases.

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#3079802 26-May-2023 14:01

MikeAqua:
Does anyone else wonder if there are adults sitting behind the kids doing these ram raids, pulling the strings? Especially when you see a number of ram raids in the same night in the same city. When that happens it seems organised. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

110% of course

Bung

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#3079805 26-May-2023 14:17

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300574479/police-working-with-social-media-giants-after-spate-of-ramraids-in-auckland

Stupid people looking for fame and notoriety is responsible for a lot of it. They aren't criminal masterminds because most get caught.

wellygary

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#3079813 26-May-2023 14:52

Bung: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300574479/police-working-with-social-media-giants-after-spate-of-ramraids-in-auckland

Stupid people looking for fame and notoriety is responsible for a lot of it. They aren't criminal masterminds because most get caught.

No, but they have a literal "get out of jail free card"- the police need to prove they knew what they were doing is wrong,

(Most people will say- of course they knew.... but the requirement to PROVE it is fairly arduous, so I'm betting most never get to court)

Crimes Act S.22

Children between 10 and 14

(1)No person shall be convicted of an offence by reason of any act done or omitted by him or her when of the age of 10 but under the age of 14 years, unless he or she knew either that the act or omission was wrong or that it was contrary to law.

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#3079814 26-May-2023 14:54

Bung: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300574479/police-working-with-social-media-giants-after-spate-of-ramraids-in-auckland

Stupid people looking for fame and notoriety is responsible for a lot of it. They aren't criminal masterminds because most get caught.

A lot? Get real.

A small amount maybe more likely a fraction of it.

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#3079815 26-May-2023 14:55

wellygary:

(1)No person shall be convicted of an offence by reason of any act done or omitted by him or her when of the age of 10 but under the age of 14 years, unless he or she knew either that the act or omission was wrong or that it was contrary to law.

easily proven.

Said child, take their cellphone from them without consent, if they object, ask them why? Problem solved.

Wombat1

399 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3079821 26-May-2023 14:57

MikeB4: Jails, Borstals etc are the society escape, treating the symptoms and failing to address and treat the root causes. They are abject failures. Society can lock away the problem out of sight, out of mind and carry out mutual back slapping.

Are you suggesting then that nobody is just criminally wired? how would you suggest we treat the root cause there?

MikeB4:

In Aotearoa and abroad there has been multiple hits on society, the housing crisis, global pandemic, inflation, terrorism and multiple natural disasters. I have probably missed some. It should not come as a surprise that we are experiencing what we are now experiencing.

There are plenty of criminals that the above would have no affect on. Some people are just wired to be woman bashers, rapists etc ... White color crime another example. I am more convinced now than ever that some people just like doing crime for fun or maybe a hobby.

happyfunball

287 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3079824 26-May-2023 15:54

Crime has shot up in NZ in the last 3 years, but we always had a high crime problem, with a high incarceration rate:

There are around 170 people in prison per 100,000 New Zealanders, compared to the OECD average of around 147 prisoners per 100,000 people. (see: https://www.justice.govt.nz/justice-sector-policy/key-initiatives/key-initiatives-archive/hapaitia-te-oranga-tangata/#:~:text=There%20are%20around%20170%20people,147%20prisoners%20per%20100%2C000%20people.)

On top of this, the justice system is designed to keep incarceration rates down as much as possible, which is why we have catch and release for young offenders, home detention etc. Incarceration is expensive but despite being very forgiving of criminal action, with light penalties, our prisons are full.

Traditionally crime is very concentrated geographically, but what we are seeing now is crime from the outskirts coming into the CBD and middle-class suburbs. That's what the media is reporting and that's what we are seeing close to where we work and live.

It's clear what we are doing is not working, but I don't hear any new ideas from the government. They are intent on hope and talk.

Maybe the old way (more prisons, more penalties) would be an improvement.

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#3079833 26-May-2023 16:39

happyfunball:

It's clear what we are doing is not working, but I don't hear any new ideas from the government. They are intent on hope and talk.

Maybe the old way (more prisons, more penalties) would be an improvement.

Because the prliamentary part of government is not saying much does not mean the agencies concerned are not working hard to address this. As for the "old way", The old way did not work and has never worked.

johno1234

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#3079834 26-May-2023 16:47

MikeB4:

happyfunball:

It's clear what we are doing is not working, but I don't hear any new ideas from the government. They are intent on hope and talk.

Maybe the old way (more prisons, more penalties) would be an improvement.

Because the prliamentary part of government is not saying much does not mean the agencies concerned are not working hard to address this. As for the "old way", The old way did not work and has never worked.

Nonsense. Of course the "old way" worked - do a degree. And the "new way" works to a degree as well. They are both better than nothing so therefore they do indeed work, and obviously so. However the new way seems to be far less effective than the old way, as evidenced by the daily ram raids and store robberies we are seeing. You demonstrate little care for the victims of crime, such as these blighters:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-dairy-worker-left-scared-for-life-as-armed-thieves-target-shop/7JIXZWXM3ZA57MUI6FCRMSWDKQ/

There's a story like that one every day.

Paul1977

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#3079835 26-May-2023 16:48

MikeB4:

Because the prliamentary part of government is not saying much does not mean the agencies concerned are not working hard to address this. As for the "old way", The old way did not work and has never worked.

Almost all systems "work" to some extent. There needs to be a balance of prevention, rehabilitation, and also consequences. None on their own will fully work.

Paul1977

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#3079836 26-May-2023 16:50

johno1234:...Of course the "old way" worked - do a degree. And the "new way" works to a degree as well. They are both better than nothing so therefore they do indeed work, and obviously so...

You beat me to it.

MikeB4

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#3079837 26-May-2023 16:56

You are right the old way worked, prisons were full and they have been full for decades. If we ignore the root causes they will continue to be full and the systems will continue to work.

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