Titanic tourist sub missing

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Networkn
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#3094248 23-Jun-2023 21:43

Handle9:

Once again you are making the presumption that they are looking for a financial settlement. I doubt that's an outcome they'd be looking for, they'd be far more interested in breaking anyone associated with this mess.

Breaking? In what way? Who exactly? The CEO went down with the ship. The company will close, it's staff will be unemployed.

I can't see this going very far. No-one forced them into the submersible and even without a waiver, you'd be a complete idiot to think that getting to a depth of 3800m was not without *significant* risks of death or injury.

Even if I had paid, been promised it was safe, been shown all sorts of certification, I'd have gotten to within 1m of that thing and bailed.

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Handle9

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#3094249 23-Jun-2023 21:47

networkn:

Handle9:

Once again you are making the presumption that they are looking for a financial settlement. I doubt that's an outcome they'd be looking for, they'd be far more interested in breaking anyone associated with this mess.

Breaking? In what way? Who exactly? The CEO went down with the ship. The company will close, it's staff will be unemployed.

I can't see this going very far. No-one forced them into the submersible and even without a waiver, you'd be a complete idiot to think that getting to a depth of 3800m was not without *significant* risks of death or injury.

Even if I had paid, been promised it was safe, been shown all sorts of certification, I'd have gotten to within 1m of that thing and bailed.

The officers of the company, the board and anyone associated with allowing them to operate will end up in civil and likely criminal litigation. You are dreaming if you think otherwise.

neb

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#3094254 23-Jun-2023 22:14

networkn:
Even if I had paid, been promised it was safe, been shown all sorts of certification, I'd have gotten to within 1m of that thing and bailed.

I'd have gotten inside out of curiosity, as long as there was no chance of them putting it in the water. Sort of like how, as a kid, I climbed into a tree... house sort of thing some friends of mine built, while making sure I had a good grip on a tree branch at the same time.

I know it's easy enough to bash them in hindsight but the very first photo I saw of that thing immediately called to mind the famous words of HRH Leia Organa, "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought".

Rikkitic

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#3094255 23-Jun-2023 22:54

The mythbusters once imploded a railway tanker. At first they couldn't get it to do anything. They finally had to bash on it to weaken the structure so it would collapse. This makes me wonder if the sub was knocked around as it went in and out of the water. Over time maybe that led to the disaster.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#3094258 23-Jun-2023 23:09

Why would there be litigation ?

If this story is to be believed, then the waiver states you could be killed...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/20/david-pogue-titanic-submarine-video-cbs/70340223007/

neb

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#3094259 23-Jun-2023 23:10

neb: There's just so much wrong with this thing that it's hard to even know where to start. For example, just to pick out a single tiny item, the hatch that can only be opened from the outside has been singled out for criticism, but then there's also supposedly a video out there somewhere showing them using an impact wrench to tighten the bolts, which is absolutely not how you do it. You need a torque wrench, initially set to low torque, then you tighten them in the correct opposite-sides pattern, set to higher torque, tighten again in the correct pattern, etc, until the desired torque is reached. You don't just hammer each one into place with an impact driver, you're not going to get an even seal, not going to get consistent tightening of each bolt, and since you're hammering them in there's a chance you'll crack the frame you're driving them into.

I haven't been able to find that video, but I did find this one of them being tightened with a hand wrench and a spanner (there are two separate shots combined, with different wrenches used by different guys, the second one looks like a proper torque wrench). They're just going round in a loop tightening one bolt next to the other... you don't put on a bleeping car tire like that, let alone something that has to withstand 380 ATM pressure.

It's not so much "which bit failed" but "which of this long shopping list was the one that failed first". And not "why did it fail this time?" but "why did it take so long to fail?".

Handle9

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#3094260 23-Jun-2023 23:15

WyleECoyoteNZ:
Why would there be litigation ?

If this story is to be believed, then the waiver states you could be killed...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/20/david-pogue-titanic-submarine-video-cbs/70340223007/

You can’t contract out of negligence. The waiver will limit their liability in other ways but there is a clear duty of care.

Handle9

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#3094263 23-Jun-2023 23:35

neb:
neb: There's just so much wrong with this thing that it's hard to even know where to start. For example, just to pick out a single tiny item, the hatch that can only be opened from the outside has been singled out for criticism, but then there's also supposedly a video out there somewhere showing them using an impact wrench to tighten the bolts, which is absolutely not how you do it. You need a torque wrench, initially set to low torque, then you tighten them in the correct opposite-sides pattern, set to higher torque, tighten again in the correct pattern, etc, until the desired torque is reached. You don't just hammer each one into place with an impact driver, you're not going to get an even seal, not going to get consistent tightening of each bolt, and since you're hammering them in there's a chance you'll crack the frame you're driving them into.

I haven't been able to find that video, but I did find this one of them being tightened with a hand wrench and a spanner (there are two separate shots combined, with different wrenches used by different guys, the second one looks like a proper torque wrench). They're just going round in a loop tightening one bolt next to the other... you don't put on a bleeping car tire like that, let alone something that has to withstand 380 ATM pressure.

It's not so much "which bit failed" but "which of this long shopping list was the one that failed first". And not "why did it fail this time?" but "why did it take so long to fail?".

I’ll repeat what I quoted earlier:

“…he [Rush] believes it [regulations] needlessly prioritized passenger safety over commercial innovation”

Tech bros are the best.

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#3094265 24-Jun-2023 00:04

Rikkitic:
The mythbusters once imploded a railway tanker. At first they couldn't get it to do anything. They finally had to bash on it to weaken the structure so it would collapse. This makes me wonder if the sub was knocked around as it went in and out of the water. Over time maybe that led to the disaster.

Maybe 400 times more pressure had something to do with it.

Rikkitic

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#3094266 24-Jun-2023 01:22

Doesn't invalidate my point. The sub could have been structurally weakened over time from bopping into other objects. 400 times more pressure just means the weak point would not have to be all that much weaker for collapse to occur.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Geektastic

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#3094288 24-Jun-2023 09:45

WyleECoyoteNZ:
Why would there be litigation ?

If this story is to be believed, then the waiver states you could be killed...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/06/20/david-pogue-titanic-submarine-video-cbs/70340223007/

Because it’s the USA where you can be sued for not warning a customer that their coffee might be hot?

Geektastic

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#3094289 24-Jun-2023 09:46

Better call Saul!

Paul1977

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#3094292 24-Jun-2023 09:51

The first report I saw said debris was 1600m from Titanic wreck, but sounds like this was incorrect. News last night said 466m from bow section, and other reports are saying the implosion was detected “about 500m” from Titanic wreckage. It seems they knew exactly where to send the ROV once it arrived.

I don’t have an issue with innovators trying new technology that, if more affordable, might ultimately benefit deep sea exploration. The issue I have here is how much did the four passengers really understand about the risks? Yeah they signed waivers, but what was verbally told to them? Possibly “it’s just a formality, it’s perfectly safe”. That’s speculation, and we’ll never know what might have been said; but the fact that the CEO of the company was piloting would likely instil the passengers with a sense of confidence in the product that in retrospect clearly wasn’t justified.

There’s been a lot of talk that legal action would be pointless as the CEO was one of the victims. But the CEO didn’t design and build the sub on his own. If these deaths were the result of negligence, bad design, sloppy engineering, and/or misrepresentation of the actual danger; there could potentially be multiple people who should be held to account.

RunningMan

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#3094294 24-Jun-2023 09:59

Paul1977: The first report I saw said debris was 1600m from Titanic wreck, but sounds like this was incorrec .

It's just the media that can't get their units right. It was 1600 feet, not metres.

kingdragonfly

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#3094297 24-Jun-2023 10:22

This incident got me thinking of the TV series "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea"

Maybe the unber-rich should have spent their money on these

Fully Functional Flying Sub From Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea - RC Submarine

RCSubGuy

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