Climate Change Thread

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#3108398 26-Jul-2023 15:32

johno1234:

SJB:

The single best thing you can do for the planet is - don't have any children.

Unfortunately when you are old and infirm, there'll be nobody to look after you and you will have a long sad and lonely end of life.

As an older person who never had the opportunity to marry or have children, I find this statement quite offensive.

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johno1234

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#3108473 26-Jul-2023 16:33

alasta:

johno1234:

SJB:

The single best thing you can do for the planet is - don't have any children.

Unfortunately when you are old and infirm, there'll be nobody to look after you and you will have a long sad and lonely end of life.

As an older person who never had the opportunity to marry or have children, I find this statement quite offensive.

Sorry, you misunderstand my post.

If everybody stopped having children, then none of us will be looked after when we are old. There will be nobody to do it and nobody paying taxes to fund it.

cddt

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#3108474 26-Jul-2023 16:34

MadEngineer:
Personally I’m trying to remain optimistic but remembered the other day that the ocean is supposed to be a good equaliser of global warming by increasing algae for example which soaks up carbon. Clearly that’s not working - I don’t know, have we reached peak algae levels?

The ocean sucks up a lot of carbon dioxide by becoming more acidic. As it becomes more acidic, it can soak up less and less. Recently it has been absorbing about a quarter of humanity's carbon dioxide emissions. The ocean also absorbs large quantities of heat (and hence is expanding - more sea level rise is due to thermal expansion than the melting of glaciers and ice caps). However over time the heat which it has been absorbing (and has been circulating deeper and deeper) will start to reemerge as warmer water. Warmer water doesn't soak up nearly as much heat as colder water.

Do you remember learning about buffers in chemistry at high school? It's exactly like that. The system has been in equilibirum for thousands of years, and we can add a certain amount of additional carbon dioxide and heat to the system without too much impact, but all of a sudden we exceed some limit and everything goes haywire. If we're not already past that threshold now, we are passing it right now.

mudguard

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#3108530 26-Jul-2023 17:11

johno1234:

If everybody stopped having children, then none of us will be looked after when we are old. There will be nobody to do it and nobody paying taxes to fund it.

Technically we are already importing those workers anyway. The elderly relatives of friends don't live anywhere near their kids. So I guess if seeing them once a year is looking after them, then I guess.

As for my contribution, quite horrific unfortunately. 36 flights per year. 40,000kms of driving. No kids though. My next car will be hybrid though that's a little out of my hands as that's a Toyota decision.

tdgeek

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#3108535 26-Jul-2023 18:07

johno1234:

Sorry, you misunderstand my post.

If everybody stopped having children, then none of us will be looked after when we are old. There will be nobody to do it and nobody paying taxes to fund it.

Or you would not have been born

I "slightly" get your point, BUT. There is nothing wrong with greenhouse gases, if we didnt have them, which includes water vapour, then we would not be here

If you suggest that no kids is the answer, then apply that to all life. The issue is balance. Not only is it fine for humans and all life to emit GG, its needed, its about balance.

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#3108540 26-Jul-2023 18:29

johno1234:

SJB:

The single best thing you can do for the planet is - don't have any children.

Unfortunately when you are old and infirm, there'll be nobody to look after you and you will have a long sad and lonely end of life.

Nah, with the collapse of the ecosystem it will be nasty, brutish and short!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3108545 26-Jul-2023 18:40

Another point: everyone generally knows warmer air holds more water therefore more rain and other weather events as a result of water laden air.

What isn’t well known is that the resulting increase in moisture isn’t linear so the effect rapidly gets worse with small temperature increases

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

tdgeek

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#3108551 26-Jul-2023 18:58

MadEngineer: Another point: everyone generally knows warmer air holds more water therefore more rain and other weather events as a result of water laden air.

What isn’t well known is that the resulting increase in moisture isn’t linear so the effect rapidly gets worse with small temperature increases

Yep. As some TV series said "Its Complicated" You have cyclical El Nino and La Nina, their patterns are reliable. But get eggagerated by higher temps. West coast of South America, fish galore, then not, due to currents carrying nutrients, or not. Go back to 9/11 2996 people died in a terrorist act. But IIRC 2 weeks later, 250,000 died in Pakistan when massive rain in the dry season literally washed everything away. India, monsoon was late. Climate Change means its warmer but some places will be cooler, or wetter or drier etc.

Down Under as in NZ, we are sub tropical or temperate, so while we have had weather events, its not as pronounced here, as it often is elsewhere. Yes, Hawkes Bay, I hear you.

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#3108556 26-Jul-2023 19:37

Yes it can be complicated but there is the simple easy to understand basis for solving this - stop burning, gas and coal now. Then there may be hope.

We all need to think about how we individually can do this and for many there are some very simple ways to do this. Every bit will help - don't let perfect get in the way of good

johno1234

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#3108591 26-Jul-2023 20:54

morrisk:
Yes it can be complicated but there is the simple easy to understand basis for solving this - stop burning, gas and coal now. Then there may be hope.

We all need to think about how we individually can do this and for many there are some very simple ways to do this. Every bit will help - don't let perfect get in the way of good

Are you being literal? Stopping all gas and coal now would stop global supply chains leading to starvation and civil war. Similar to what you are trying to prevent.

morrisk

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#3108601 26-Jul-2023 22:07

I did not say stop "all" but I did mean what I said.

I understand that this is not possible however it is what we need to be trying to do as it is an obvious and easily understood way to reduce the amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere.

We need to be stopping where we can and there are many situations where we can stop and global supply chains will not be affected. Of course there will be inconvenience but the effects the world is experiencing everyday right now are not too pleasant for anyone.

Hopefully there will be ways in which global supply chains can be maintained without having to burn oil, gas or coal over time.

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#3108609 26-Jul-2023 23:26

morrisk:

I did not say stop "all" but I did mean what I said.

Exactly. We'll never stop making this worse if we don't actually try. We can start by prohibiting new fossil fuel exploration or extraction. We can jack up the prices on fossil fuels while giving rebates back on it for uses that either are favoured because they still reduce overall emissions (such as for fuel for buses or trains) or are currently inescapable (e.g. construction equipment). We can tax the use of fossil fuels for heating, and use it to fund replacements such as heat pumps or electric arc furnaces. We can push freight towards trains instead of trucks, and ships instead of aircraft. We can electrify the ground transport faster - electric trains have been around for over a hundred years; we know how to make electric cars with perfectly adequate range for real use cases, and there are multiple solutions in contention for electrification of even long haul trucks.

Basically, we force everyone's hand by making doing the right thing the only financially viable option. We know this works - the EV rebate has been so successful it had to be adjusted after only the first year to lower the rebates and jack up the penalties. We can also use the revenue to fund programs to reduce the impacts on those who currently are not in a position to make any meaningful changes such as those who work odd hours or from places that aren't well served by PT, or the otherwise disadvantaged.

But if we just sit around telling ourselves its too hard, nothing will change except that the rate of collapse will increase. All this is possible. But only if we actually do it.

Party vote Green (or Te Pāti Māori if that's your thing) this year if you want any chance for change for the better. Labour alone won't rock the boat, and National/Act stated policies will roll back even the milquetoast stuff the Green party managed to push Labour into over the last term.

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tdgeek

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#3108636 27-Jul-2023 07:17

SaltyNZ:

Exactly. We'll never stop making this worse if we don't actually try. We can start by prohibiting new fossil fuel exploration or extraction. We can jack up the prices on fossil fuels while giving rebates back on it for uses that either are favoured because they still reduce overall emissions (such as for fuel for buses or trains) or are currently inescapable (e.g. construction equipment). We can tax the use of fossil fuels for heating, and use it to fund replacements such as heat pumps or electric arc furnaces. We can push freight towards trains instead of trucks, and ships instead of aircraft. We can electrify the ground transport faster - electric trains have been around for over a hundred years; we know how to make electric cars with perfectly adequate range for real use cases, and there are multiple solutions in contention for electrification of even long haul trucks.

Basically, we force everyone's hand by making doing the right thing the only financially viable option. We know this works - the EV rebate has been so successful it had to be adjusted after only the first year to lower the rebates and jack up the penalties. We can also use the revenue to fund programs to reduce the impacts on those who currently are not in a position to make any meaningful changes such as those who work odd hours or from places that aren't well served by PT, or the otherwise disadvantaged.

But if we just sit around telling ourselves its too hard, nothing will change except that the rate of collapse will increase. All this is possible. But only if we actually do it.

Party vote Green (or Te Pāti Māori if that's your thing) this year if you want any chance for change for the better. Labour alone won't rock the boat, and National/Act stated policies will roll back even the milquetoast stuff the Green party managed to push Labour into over the last term.

100%. Despite many peoples concern over Climate Change, the vast majority favour their finances first. So, with all your above ideas, set a transition period, during that period there are increasing levies on fossil fuel use, which will A) push people away from FF consumption B) push them to green energy alternatives, where they get financial support from the levies. Take EV's as one example, you cannot penalise Joe Average who cannot afford one, but as prices come down and used EV's hit the car market, you can give support, such as buy a new/used EV and the FF levy will contribute to the monthly payments for say 3 years. Ideally the monthly subsidy and the lower fuel cost equal the petrol cost making it a no brainer for Joe Above Average and Joe below Average to convert. You can apply that philosophy to any FF use

The admin side of exclusions that you touched on might be tricky, but if we can land on the Moon 50+ years ago and we can drop a probe on a comet and take samples, administering FF use that cannot be avoided right now, isnt that hard

This would all need global support, all FF burning first world countries need to apply the same transition plans

cddt

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#3108637 27-Jul-2023 07:46

SaltyNZ:

But if we just sit around telling ourselves its too hard, nothing will change except that the rate of collapse will increase. All this is possible. But only if we actually do it.

I'll be quite happy to bike to work (rain or shine) when it is safer to do so. Unfortunately the government/council has not done anything about adding physically separated cycleways on most main routes (yes I hear there is one out west but I don't live or work out there).

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#3108639 27-Jul-2023 08:10

cddt:

I'll be quite happy to bike to work (rain or shine) when it is safer to do so. Unfortunately the government/council has not done anything about adding physically separated cycleways on most main routes (yes I hear there is one out west but I don't live or work out there).

Just another example of something we definitely can do if only our government would get off its butt and do it. Also another thing that a National/Act government won't do, and will probably attempt to roll back wherever separated cycle lanes have been carved off roads because the National Party has no ideas except for roads, roads, roads, to the point that it's memeable.

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