PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

Forums › Off topic › PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

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#3121116 28-Aug-2023 11:49

rb99:

So by the same token, the Whakatane Christmas parade, and no doubt others, should be banned as some roads are closed for that and it might inconvenience people.

Protests should be banned on pavements, as the pavement is being blocked and it might inconvenience someone.

Where, indeed, does it end.

Presumably you agree with the UKs slide into, I dunno, fascism, where you are prosecuted under a law where you are not allowed to explain your motives to a jury of your peers ?

And another silly strawman argument. Such a parade is known in advance and certainly not in commute time. The argument is not about inconveniencing people; it is about preventing people's rights and safety - freedom of movement.

Blocking a road without due notice and approval doesn't just inconvenience people. It takes away their rights and it creates harm.

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rb99

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#3121118 28-Aug-2023 11:54

And yet strangely the first post links to a Police webpage entitled Planned Protest.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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Lias

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#3121119 28-Aug-2023 11:57

SaltyNZ:

We're exercising our democratic right to protest against the man and his arbitrary restrictions! Geekzoners! United! Will never be defeated!

Okay that made me laugh, but I'm still sending in the Red Squad :-P

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#3121120 28-Aug-2023 11:59

Lias:

Okay that made me laugh, but I'm still sending in the Red Squad :-P

Help! Help! I'm bein' repressed!

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johno1234

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#3121123 28-Aug-2023 12:06

rb99:

And yet strangely the first post links to a Police webpage entitled Planned Protest.

Completely vague. Doesn't say where, or when within the 12 hours of "morning". Effectively unknown to the wider public who stand to be endangered or have their rights abrogated by the protesters.

These protesters are just making people who may have been sympathetic to their cause hate them and by association hate their cause. They are harming their cause and are either too stupid to understand this, or perhaps too intoxicated by the mayhem they cause to care.

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#3121126 28-Aug-2023 12:14

Oh, it might well not be the best way to do things, but sometimes I guess you just have to do things to get noticed. And inconveniencing people is a pathetic argument to supress freedom to protest.

And no I'm not brave enouigh to stand up for things like others are.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#3121127 28-Aug-2023 12:20

rb99:

And inconveniencing people is a pathetic argument to supress freedom to protest.

I think some inconvenience is tolerable, but it has to be reasonable. A planned, consented closure of the area around Parliament for a day is most certainly an inconvenience, but I think most people would consider it reasonable. I don't think very many people would consider what this group is doing reasonable.

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#3121128 28-Aug-2023 12:21

rb99:

Oh, it might well not be the best way to do things, but sometimes I guess you just have to do things to get noticed. And inconveniencing people is a pathetic argument to supress freedom to protest.

And no I'm not brave enouigh to stand up for things like others are.

I'd hardly say I was a veteran but I've been to three protests myself (two for Climate Change and one for pro-[abortion] choice). Overcoming the reluctance to raise a fuss that we have inherited from our colonial ancestors is the hardest part.

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#3121129 28-Aug-2023 12:26

Lias:

rb99:

And inconveniencing people is a pathetic argument to supress freedom to protest.

I think some inconvenience is tolerable, but it has to be reasonable. A planned, consented closure of the area around Parliament for a day is most certainly an inconvenience, but I think most people would consider it reasonable. I don't think very many people would consider what this group is doing reasonable.

Maybe thats the big problem, the matter of degree. I can cope with roads being blocked by protests, with a strong preference for the carefully organized variety, but not many people would tolerate an ambulance staion being blocked, but then if its blocked in a 'token' fashion, so everybody scatters when they hear the sirens go on...anyway. peoples limits are obviously different.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#3121130 28-Aug-2023 12:28

+1 Vote for this thread to be best of the year so far.

It's not a juxtaposition to get annoyed at these people deliberately wreaking mayhem and playing havoc with traffic, while still heavily supporting freedom of speech and ones right to protest.

The protestors have a right to protest whatever they want to.

Everyone else equally has the right to not be impacted by their protest.

It is 100% criminal behaviour to encroach upon the rights of another human by preventing their freedom of movement, especially when done for your own gain - To further your political agenda for instance.

It's NOT criminal to engage the Council, Police and have an appropriate plan to interrupt the normal freedom of movement, transmitted ahead of time to ensure those who may be impacted are made aware of the disruption.

In this case, it's the former, as no official communication has been transmitted, Police were forced to release their own comms to help minimise distruption. This is the criminal aspect.

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#3121131 28-Aug-2023 12:28

SaltyNZ:

rb99:

Oh, it might well not be the best way to do things, but sometimes I guess you just have to do things to get noticed. And inconveniencing people is a pathetic argument to supress freedom to protest.

And no I'm not brave enouigh to stand up for things like others are.

I'd hardly say I was a veteran but I've been to three protests myself (two for Climate Change and one for pro-[abortion] choice). Overcoming the reluctance to raise a fuss that we have inherited from our colonial ancestors is the hardest part.

Born and brought up in the old country, so probably can't really comment.

...except I watch the decline of freedoms there and really hope it doesn't get copied closer to my new(ish) home...

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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johno1234

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#3121134 28-Aug-2023 12:32

rb99:

Oh, it might well not be the best way to do things, but sometimes I guess you just have to do things to get noticed. And inconveniencing people is a pathetic argument to supress freedom to protest.

And no I'm not brave enouigh to stand up for things like others are.

I' m OK with inconveniencing. But blocking roads is way beyond that when people are trapped in gridlock, miss hospital and doctors visits, job interviews, kids left uncollected, emergency vehicles blocked and so on.

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#3121136 28-Aug-2023 12:37

tehgerbil:

+1 Vote for this thread to be best of the year so far.

It's not a juxtaposition to get annoyed at these people deliberately wreaking mayhem and playing havoc with traffic, while still heavily supporting freedom of speech and ones right to protest.

The protestors have a right to protest whatever they want to.

Everyone else equally has the right to not be impacted by their protest.

It is 100% criminal behaviour to encroach upon the rights of another human by preventing their freedom of movement, especially when done for your own gain - To further your political agenda for instance.

It's NOT criminal to engage the Council, Police and have an appropriate plan to interrupt the normal freedom of movement, transmitted ahead of time to ensure those who may be impacted are made aware of the disruption.

In this case, it's the former, as no official communication has been transmitted, Police were forced to release their own comms to help minimise distruption. This is the criminal aspect.

Almost completely agree, except for 'criminal' and 'preventing their freedom of movement'. IMHO, its not (or shouldn't be) preventing, its that word inconvieiencing, as in, you're delayed a bit (not a lot or yes the police should intervene) or you have to go the long way round. Also ''for your own gain' - they at lesat would say they're doing it for everybodies gain (in this case).

So I'm not really a fan of people just walking into the middle of the road to fight for the right to clean air or whatever, I'm more very unimpressed at some of the more hang 'em high responses to them daring to inconveniece people in the process.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#3121137 28-Aug-2023 12:40

johno1234:

I' m OK with inconveniencing. But blocking roads is way beyond that when people are trapped in gridlock, miss hospital and doctors visits, job interviews, kids left uncollected, emergency vehicles blocked and so on.

And yet if that kind of protest had happened regularly 30 years ago, the climate wouldn't currently be balanced right on the knife's edge between "cheese is for millionaires and my house now has a 50/50 chance of being bowled over by the extreme weather in the next 20 years" and "I wonder if my grandchildren will die from famine or war as technological society collapses and someone starts WWIII to try to gain control of what's left?"

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#3121139 28-Aug-2023 12:40

If they announce in advance that they will block SH2 or Jervois Quay on day x @11am so that essential services etc can re-route then maybe there could be some forgiveness.

As a personal example if I were to be caught up in a blockage by protest that could have serious life altering outcomes or life ending outcome. They have no right to do that. Their right to protest does not give carte blanche.

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