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Baby Get Shaky!
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  Reply # 196644 19-Feb-2009 08:52
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corksta:
You really are better off asking these questions of professionals (police station, community law centre) as people on here who don't know what they are talking about (no reference to anyone) may reply based on what they "think" they know, which is how old wives tales start, and when it comes to dealing with the police you don't want to start spouting off like you know what you're talking about based on what answers people have given you in a general forum!!!

I hope I'm not one of those people... haha, but I probably am. Reminds me of a time my hairdresser (whom I always take my legal advice from) told me that she was hoping to get off a traffic ticket because the Police Officer who issued it was not wearing his hat, which she reckon'd he legally had to wear when getting out of his car... I never did find out how that went Tongue out

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  Reply # 196667 19-Feb-2009 10:20
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pebbles: I'm just wondering why you wouldn't tell your police your name... unless you're doing something incriminating then the officer having your name shouldn't be a bad thing.


Depends if the cop is dodgy. I damn near got arrested for pushing a crossing-signal button with my knee one day... I definately didn't feel comfortable giving my name and address to a bully-boy who was clearly harassing me for the way I looked.




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  Reply # 196670 19-Feb-2009 10:25
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nzkc: Simply put: don't do it.


Totally. I'm sick of people doing really stupid things then trying to wiggle out of it.




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  Reply # 196674 19-Feb-2009 10:57
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kingjj:
I hope I'm not one of those people... haha, but I probably am. Reminds me of a time my hairdresser (whom I always take my legal advice from) told me that she was hoping to get off a traffic ticket because the Police Officer who issued it was not wearing his hat, which she reckon'd he legally had to wear when getting out of his car... I never did find out how that went Tongue out


So what does your lawyer charge to cut your hair?Money mouth

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  Reply # 196676 19-Feb-2009 11:14
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If you are unhappy with the way you are treated by the police then ask for his/her "QID" (its the number on their shoulder).  They must provide you with this if asked.  Then report it.

With regards to the wearing of the hat for a traffic ticket mentioned earlier there is something about that.  I think officers are legally required to identify themselves.  They can produce ID but I think the hat also counts (dont know why).

One thing you can do if you're pulled over and the officer hops out of their car without a fluorescent jacket on is report them to OSH.  Only do this if they deserve it though

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  Reply # 196693 19-Feb-2009 13:06
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nzkc: With regards to the wearing of the hat for a traffic ticket mentioned earlier there is something about that.  I think officers are legally required to identify themselves.  They can produce ID but I think the hat also counts (dont know why).


See this is exactly what I'm talking about where people say stuff without qualifying it and it winds up being talked about as "fact" with people later saying "I read on a forum that.........."

Nothing personal nzkc but unfortunately you're wrong. I appreciate you might merely be repeating something you've heard before though, but in my line of work I've come across too many people that have done/said things because they've heard/read it in other places and it has been passed off as fact. You are however totally right about a police officer being obliged to give you their QID, as well as their name and station they are based at, and also reporting them to OSH without wearing a fluorescent jacket (that'd be interesting to see what happens!)

A police officer's power to pull you over (primarily) comes from section 114 of the Land Transport Act 1998 (you can be stopped under the Crimes Act 1961 as well but that's another discussion). Below are the relevant parts of section 114:

 114      Power to require driver to stop and give name and address, etc
  • (1) An enforcement officer who is in uniform, or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, may signal or request the driver of a vehicle to stop the vehicle as soon as is practicable.


There are another six sub-sections and a few clauses as well outlining a driver's duties and so on, but you'll see I've highlighted the word 'or' on the first line to show that under the current legislation no police officer is required to wear their hat when pulling you over.

Where this arose from is under the Transport Act 1962 (an Act which has since been almost entirely repealed and replaced by the Land Transport Act 1998) where traffic officers (in the MOT days) WERE required to wear a hat. So any time someone tries to use this defence in a letter to the Police Infringement Bureau they will be politely told "sorry, the fine still stands".

I've worked in this field for a while (8 years) so I'd like to think I have an idea of what I'm talking about. I don't need to say what I do for a job (I'm not a defence lawyer though!!!) but as I said earlier, people are best to ask someone in the police, a lawyer or prosecutor, or at a community law centre to get a definitive answer rather than relying on hearsay and tales as a guide.

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  Reply # 196770 19-Feb-2009 20:18
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kiwitrc:
kingjj:
I hope I'm not one of those people... haha, but I probably am. Reminds me of a time my hairdresser (whom I always take my legal advice from) told me that she was hoping to get off a traffic ticket because the Police Officer who issued it was not wearing his hat, which she reckon'd he legally had to wear when getting out of his car... I never did find out how that went Tongue out


So what does your lawyer charge to cut your hair?Money mouth

Depends, if she's not wearing her "offical hat" I refuse to pay... haha.
Thanks for the breakdown corksta, that sounds accurate. I actually asked a mate in the Police about this today and he said something along the same lines, you beat me to it.

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  Reply # 196778 19-Feb-2009 20:41
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Seeing as this thread has taken a turn for a different topic, is it true that you can get out of a speeding ticket (after being pulled over by a cop) by asking for a calibration certificate for their radar, apparently one of my dads friends got out of a huge fine via this method after the cop could not produce verifiable means to say his radar gun was accurate.
So in summary is this legit?

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  Reply # 196787 19-Feb-2009 21:08
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In summary, yes.

Each day that a radar is used it needs to be calibrated using a pair of tuning forks. The tuning forks are held in front of the antennae and oscillate at a specific frequency (can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head) which the antennae register on the display.

Once this is done then a moving check is carried out where the speed displayed on the device must correspond to the speed displayed on the speedometer of the police car.

Once this is done the boxes are ticked and filled out in the logbook (along with the date).

If someone wishes to contest a speeding ticket then the logbook for that day must be produced by the police as evidence in court to show that the unit was calibrated and operating correctly prior to being used operationally, i.e. to pull people over and issue speeding tickets.

If the police officer forgot to do the checks or did them but forgot to record them in the logbook then immediately the police are on the backfoot in court. It does not mean the ticket is automatically thrown out, but generally the court will find in favour of the person issued the ticket as there's no excuse for the logbook not being filled out.

One should buy a lotto ticket if they have a speeding ticket waived based on this as it's pretty rare that the logbook isn't filled out!

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  Reply # 196816 19-Feb-2009 23:02
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Since this OT post has already drifted OT, has anyone else formed the opinion that the roadside speed indicators under report your speed? I have followed several Police cars in 50 zones and predictably my speedo shows 50. Cruise past one of those electronic indicators whether fixed or trailer mounted at 50 and they'll usually show 45 or less.

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  Reply # 196827 19-Feb-2009 23:41
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Depends how they're calibrated I guess. Speedometers on vehicles can be up to 10kph out which is a safety thing (speedo shows 100 but actual speed may be as low as 90).

Pretty much all frontline police cars have their speedos calibrated so the speed indicated is the true speed. This is so that without using a radar or laser they can follow you if you're exceeding the posted speed limit and issue you a speeding ticket, but there are pretty strict criteria that must be met first, but again that's a different topic.

I don't know how they've been done but my guess would be they are set up in a similar way to a speed camera, in that the waves sent out bounce off your car, are received by the transmitter which then calculates your speed.

If that were true (I'm just speculating here) then it would be reporting your true speed. Then again they certainly can't be used as evidence of any sort so who knows how they've been set up.

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  Reply # 196828 19-Feb-2009 23:52
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Quite a few cars over read by ~10%. Especially if you have an incorrect tire size.

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  Reply # 197070 20-Feb-2009 23:27
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corksta: Nothing personal nzkc but unfortunately you're wrong.

None taken, but I think you go on to back up what I said (which in fairness wasn't clear and I take responsibility there).  I said I thought the hat counts as identifying themselves (but I wasn't sure why).  You then quote part of the act that seems to back that up.

Not wanting to get into a flame war, just point out I think we're saying the same thing - your explanation much clearer than mine though!

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  Reply # 197080 21-Feb-2009 07:16
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dawnraid: Seeing as this thread has taken a turn for a different topic, is it true that you can get out of a speeding ticket (after being pulled over by a cop) by asking for a calibration certificate for their radar, apparently one of my dads friends got out of a huge fine via this method after the cop could not produce verifiable means to say his radar gun was accurate.
So in summary is this legit?


As mentioned above radar in the vehicles has to be calibrated using tuning works and paperwork maintained for this.

Handheld laser guns are a seperate issue and undergo routine maintenance and calibration to ensure they are correct, officers do not test these and have no requirement to do so.

Getting way way way OT now but the most likely chance you have of getting off a ticket is if it's a mobile speed camera. Start saying the right things in your letter and you'll more than likely find your ticket being waived rather than the Police wanting to end up in court to defend the charge. Smile

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Reply # 197082 21-Feb-2009 07:41
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from your posts looks like you're a law abiding citizen

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