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Rikkitic
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  #3158662 12-Nov-2023 16:19
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If people want to have a serious discussion about this, they need to start by getting rid of the sweeping generalisations and meaningless labelling. I don't much care for the term 'greenie' because it diminishes and trivialises those who genuinely care about environmental issues. Labelling people in such a way also obscures the seriousness of their commitment. 

 

There are people, unfortunately, who attach themselves to causes as a way of feeling part of something bigger than themselves, but who have no real understanding of the thing they are promoting or real belief in it. This is just part of human nature. These people are not environmentalists. They are opportunistic parasites. Learn to tell them from the real environmentalists before coming along with scattergun criticisms. 

 

 

 

 

 

 





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Rikkitic
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  #3158663 12-Nov-2023 16:23
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networkn:

 

Greens credibility is damaged by their social policies. I'll never forget the virtual signalling from the green MP who sent out on social media how she was saving the planet by riding a bike to give birth. Someone pointed out, that there wasn't much to celebrate given she was doing one of the worst things a person can do for the planet, in adding another human to it. 

 

I'm goods with Greens being green, even if that's extreme green, but I can't get behind the other stuff. 

 

 

So one single anecdotal incident justifies disregarding everything else anyone says about environmental degradation? Have I got that right?

 

 





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networkn
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  #3158664 12-Nov-2023 16:24
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sir1963:

 

Me for example, there is no way I would vote for the greens (nor act for that matter).

 

But I do accept we need to be making more progress, climate change is real.

 

 

That describes me to a T. 

 

One of the big issues I have with the greens political party, is that if they were serious about combating climate change, they would go into coalition with whomever was the majority party in exchange for some concessions toward fighting climate change. Even if it was just a bit part coalition, surely anything they can do from inside the government beats sitting outside criticising from the outside. 




networkn
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  #3158666 12-Nov-2023 16:28
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Rikkitic:

 

So one single anecdotal incident justifies disregarding everything else anyone says about environmental degradation? Have I got that right?

 

 

You seem to be having a spectacular comprehension failure. That isn't at all what I said. Perhaps take off your rage classes at the thought of someone criticising the greens and read what was actually written.

 

BTW my example wasn't anecdotal :

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/zealand-green-mp-cycles-hospital-labor-birth-hour/story?id=81464980.

 

Neither is the fact that the Greens Social policies directly conflict with their ecological ones. 

 

 


tweake
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  #3158667 12-Nov-2023 16:33
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sir1963:

 

tweake:

 

 

 

kinda figured your "prove it" questions where just insults. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not at all, all you did was give airy fairy hand waving examples and expected me to just accept them at face value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

so the roundup thing thats still ongoing, plus the herbicide banning about 10 years ago is just airy fairy hand waving. yeah whatever.


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  #3158672 12-Nov-2023 16:40
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I supported the NZ Green at the times of Jeanette Fitzsimons however in recent times I have found myself not been able to support them. While Chlöe Swarbrick is a member of the party I will not vote for them and I have stopped my financial support for the party.

tweake
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  #3158673 12-Nov-2023 16:42
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Rikkitic:

 

If people want to have a serious discussion about this, they need to start by getting rid of the sweeping generalisations and meaningless labelling. I don't much care for the term 'greenie' because it diminishes and trivialises those who genuinely care about environmental issues. Labelling people in such a way also obscures the seriousness of their commitment. 

 

There are people, unfortunately, who attach themselves to causes as a way of feeling part of something bigger than themselves, but who have no real understanding of the thing they are promoting or real belief in it. This is just part of human nature. These people are not environmentalists. They are opportunistic parasites. Learn to tell them from the real environmentalists before coming along with scattergun criticisms. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

isn't that just a case of "it wasn't me".

 

those sheep are still used for gain. they where brought into the fold and used. call them parasites but they are a major reason for certain success around the globe. it really sounds like, "yeah we used them and achieved our goals but we don't want to be associated with their bad image". especially now that conspiracy outfits are using the same tactics and using some of the same people for their own gain. 




networkn
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  #3158674 12-Nov-2023 16:47
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MikeB4: I supported the NZ Green at the times of Jeanette Fitzsimons however in recent times I have found myself not been able to support them. While Chlöe Swarbrick is a member of the party I will not vote for them and I have stopped my financial support for the party.

 

Yeah, I think she is very smart, but her manner irritates me. Surely, it's possible to get a message across without being so... Chloe? She's like the Greens Karen :) 

 

 


networkn
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  #3158676 12-Nov-2023 16:57
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Rikkitic:

 

If people want to have a serious discussion about this, they need to start by getting rid of the sweeping generalisations and meaningless labelling. I don't much care for the term 'greenie' because it diminishes and trivialises those who genuinely care about environmental issues. Labelling people in such a way also obscures the seriousness of their commitment. 

 

There are people, unfortunately, who attach themselves to causes as a way of feeling part of something bigger than themselves, but who have no real understanding of the thing they are promoting or real belief in it. This is just part of human nature. These people are not environmentalists. They are opportunistic parasites. Learn to tell them from the real environmentalists before coming along with scattergun criticisms. 

 

 

I think if you are going to call for a particular change in behaviour you have to be prepared to demonstrate said behaviour. 

 

I think the issue is that like anything bad, it tends to be so much more apparent and visceral. I don't doubt the genuine concern and care of many members (and even MP's) of the Green Party, but those people work behind the scenes. It's rare to see them. What you do get, are the ones who have extreme views or extreme/obnoxious ways of presenting their views. If you allow those people to be the face of your cause, then that's what people will think your cause is. 

 

When someone says 'the most important change in NZ is to get rid of half the cows and that will help the planet' or something similar, the problem becomes it's apparent they don't understand the other consequences of that would be, even if the comment is factually correct. I mean we could have a similar effect by banning all aircraft to and from NZ, essentially block all international travel, but does that make sense? I mean, technical, we could do it.  We could remove all cars from the roads too. All trucks..  Those people mean well, but they are disconnected from reality in a way that's hard to take them seriously. 


Rikkitic
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  #3158685 12-Nov-2023 17:36
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networkn:

 

I think if you are going to call for a particular change in behaviour you have to be prepared to demonstrate said behaviour. 

 

I think the issue is that like anything bad, it tends to be so much more apparent and visceral. I don't doubt the genuine concern and care of many members (and even MP's) of the Green Party, but those people work behind the scenes. It's rare to see them. What you do get, are the ones who have extreme views or extreme/obnoxious ways of presenting their views. If you allow those people to be the face of your cause, then that's what people will think your cause is. 

 

When someone says 'the most important change in NZ is to get rid of half the cows and that will help the planet' or something similar, the problem becomes it's apparent they don't understand the other consequences of that would be, even if the comment is factually correct. I mean we could have a similar effect by banning all aircraft to and from NZ, essentially block all international travel, but does that make sense? I mean, technical, we could do it.  We could remove all cars from the roads too. All trucks..  Those people mean well, but they are disconnected from reality in a way that's hard to take them seriously. 

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you say here. I just object to some posters making generalised assertions about sheep and conspiracies and greenie stuff and whatever without any kind of evidence or substantiation or specificity at all. I can just as easily say all gingers smell bad and have questionable morals and it makes just as much sense (not!). If you are going to question Green policies or anything else then do so but don't start going on about people's motives and values without offering anything other than just your own say so.

 

   





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sir1963

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  #3158686 12-Nov-2023 17:39
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networkn:

 

Rikkitic:

 

If people want to have a serious discussion about this, they need to start by getting rid of the sweeping generalisations and meaningless labelling. I don't much care for the term 'greenie' because it diminishes and trivialises those who genuinely care about environmental issues. Labelling people in such a way also obscures the seriousness of their commitment. 

 

There are people, unfortunately, who attach themselves to causes as a way of feeling part of something bigger than themselves, but who have no real understanding of the thing they are promoting or real belief in it. This is just part of human nature. These people are not environmentalists. They are opportunistic parasites. Learn to tell them from the real environmentalists before coming along with scattergun criticisms. 

 

 

I think if you are going to call for a particular change in behaviour you have to be prepared to demonstrate said behaviour. 

 

I think the issue is that like anything bad, it tends to be so much more apparent and visceral. I don't doubt the genuine concern and care of many members (and even MP's) of the Green Party, but those people work behind the scenes. It's rare to see them. What you do get, are the ones who have extreme views or extreme/obnoxious ways of presenting their views. If you allow those people to be the face of your cause, then that's what people will think your cause is. 

 

When someone says 'the most important change in NZ is to get rid of half the cows and that will help the planet' or something similar, the problem becomes it's apparent they don't understand the other consequences of that would be, even if the comment is factually correct. I mean we could have a similar effect by banning all aircraft to and from NZ, essentially block all international travel, but does that make sense? I mean, technical, we could do it.  We could remove all cars from the roads too. All trucks..  Those people mean well, but they are disconnected from reality in a way that's hard to take them seriously. 

 

 

I would actually say we need to work towards removing reliance on dairy farming for our income. There is a good chance that climate change may greatly impact even our ability to maintain production, so then change will be forced on us anyway. It is better to have a plan in advance. We also have the looming issue of having to move whole communities and infrastructure, plan for various pests/diseases that will become viable here in NZ.

 

We can see how "kicking the can down the road" has impacted health and education, the same will apply to climate change. We need to be prepping, not panicking like the greens want us to. Here is where 15 minute communities will come into play, as we have to rebuild we rebuild them to be cleaner, greener, with facilities close by. I have stayed in Appartments in Australia and Germany where the super market is on the ground floor, as is the doctor. Have double glazing, have solar panels, have foot paths, cycle paths, public transport.

 

We can see that "no roads" is a stupid idea, imagine having to evacuate a large number of people during a natural disaster without roads. Impossible. Auckland showed that. We must have a middle ground, not the extremes some NZ political parties want, because that will just get peoples backs up and the can will be kicked down the road.

 

We need to put more money into science and technology, especially in teaching in primary/intermediate/high schools, the student going into University are far less capable than they were 10 years ago.

 

Lets get into "Working from home" as being an acceptable option. Plenty of people do this already, but more could be.

 

I have aa daughter in law who works for an insurance company from home

 

I have a friend who ran his own TV/Radio repair business from home, another who does computer repairs/IT work from home. Cousin ran his kitchen business from home.


Handle9
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  #3158687 12-Nov-2023 17:44
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networkn:

MikeB4:


Fancy a group of people wanting to protect our only viable home and trying to ensure that our mokopuna and tamariki don't have a living hell. Terrible, what the heck is wrong with folks wanting to protect the health of others it's insane. I hope the sarcasm is obvious in this post.


For the record I am what is called (usually in an attempted derogatory fashion) a greenie and I am ok with that and guess what I don't have two heads or wear beads and hemp. I am sane (I think) 



Greens credibility is damaged by their social policies. I'll never forget the virtual signalling from the green MP who sent out on social media how she was saving the planet by riding a bike to give birth. Someone pointed out, that there wasn't much to celebrate given she was doing one of the worst things a person can do for the planet, in adding another human to it. 


I'm goods with Greens being green, even if that's extreme green, but I can't get behind the other stuff. 



The Green Party should only care about what I say they should care about trope.

It’s funny how it never applies to any other party.

By the same “logic” a true National party would only care about protecting the countries borders, the true Labour Party would only care about industrial relations and the Association of Consumers and Tax Payers would only care about consumer and tax law.

Rikkitic
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  #3158688 12-Nov-2023 17:45
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tweake:

 

isn't that just a case of "it wasn't me".

 

those sheep are still used for gain. they where brought into the fold and used. call them parasites but they are a major reason for certain success around the globe. it really sounds like, "yeah we used them and achieved our goals but we don't want to be associated with their bad image". especially now that conspiracy outfits are using the same tactics and using some of the same people for their own gain. 

 

 

I'm sorry but I think this is really dumb and maybe also just a bit paranoid. I was just explaining that the Greens, like every movement, have a fringe of supporters who don't really understand what they are supporting, or are using it as an excuse to meet some personal need. You seem to think this defines the entire environmental movement. You also seem to have a deeper problem with environmentalists. 

 

The planet we all depend on is in real trouble and the movements trying to do something about this need to be supported and taken seriously. Environmental politics are not a conspiracy. 

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


tweake
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  #3158690 12-Nov-2023 17:58
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Rikkitic:

 

 You seem to think this defines the entire environmental movement. 

 

 

 

 

clearly you do not read. i've already mentioned several times that is not the case.

 

 


tweake
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  #3158691 12-Nov-2023 18:04
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Rikkitic:

 

 I was just explaining that the Greens, like every movement, have a fringe of supporters who don't really understand what they are supporting, or are using it as an excuse to meet some personal need. 

 

 

yet those people are "fringe supporters" are put to good use, as with most movements including conspiracy outfits. 

 

its interesting that once you compare the two, suddenly those "fringe supporters" are the bad guy and nothing to do with the "movement". 


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