Electricity spot pricing

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#3271670 15-Aug-2024 05:23

@raytaylor:

I paid contact energy $188 (incl gst) for 996kwh over 30 days
80% of the kwh's but only 67% and 55% of the cost.

Mwa Ha ha ha haaaa

Im guessing you have a few free hours of power in there? if you take that out its a different story, similar story as if i subtracted my solar export from the cost, and added my self consumed solar to add an extra 25% to my total power. Skews the end result. as just like you i also have free power in the form of solar, its just not counted on my import meter

I actually used 1613kWh at home, but only 1268kWh cam in through the meter. If you take that into account, going off your kWh used i would have only paid $163.7 for your 996kWh

that's why I said they need to shop around because as you have found there are plans that can give you much better rates, or free hours of power which if you are disciplined enough can save you a bit.

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Lias

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#3271679 15-Aug-2024 08:08

Wellingtondave:

So people in the know say that all large hydro in NZ that can be developed already has been, I presume this is without flooding arable land or building dams that NZ can't afford Three Gorges style.

I was always under the impression NZ has much greater potential hydro capacity if you could only get past the RMA and all the greenpeace types.

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nickb800

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#3271681 15-Aug-2024 08:17

Lias:

Wellingtondave:

So people in the know say that all large hydro in NZ that can be developed already has been, I presume this is without flooding arable land or building dams that NZ can't afford Three Gorges style.

I was always under the impression NZ has much greater potential hydro capacity if you could only get past the RMA and all the greenpeace types.

For example, there is the concept for four additional dams/generators on the already twice-dammed Clutha River https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/govt-says-no-clutha-dams

Lias

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#3271687 15-Aug-2024 08:31

Has anyone else noticed that the greenie types seem to be luddites who want us to live without electricity entirely?

Greenies: Stop burning coal & gas

Us: Okay we'll build hydro

Greenies: No, it will flood the habitat of the left testicled spotted warbler

Us: Okay we'll build wind farms

Greenies: No, they are ugly and loud and kill birds.

Us: Ummm okay, how about solar?

Greenies: The panels are toxic, they kill wildlife and take up land.

Us: Okay.. nuclear?

Greenies: OMG you evil imperialist!

raytaylor

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#3272170 15-Aug-2024 16:47

mattwnz:

The justification for removing it, IMO makes no sense and they cherry picked some pretty flimsy reasons for it's removal. High power users already get better per unit rates to compensate for a higher daily rate.

The low user rate was originally for low income and fixed income elderly who live in smaller houses as a social good.

The problem is that wealthy people with solar systems started jumping on it yet they still place the same amount of load on the network in the evening peaks while not paying their fair share of the network upkeep.

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wellygary

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#3272171 15-Aug-2024 16:51

raytaylor:

The problem is that wealthy people with solar systems started jumping on it yet they still place the same amount of load on the network in the evening peaks while not paying their fair share of the network upkeep.

Plus every beach house and bach.....

raytaylor

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#3272172 15-Aug-2024 16:54

Wellingtondave:

So people in the know say that all large hydro in NZ that can be developed already has been, I presume this is without flooding arable land or building dams that NZ can't afford Three Gorges style.

The last major dam in NZ - Clyde - was opened in 1993, when NZ had a population of 3.5 million. Nearly 2 million people ago. Yikes. And we wonder why NZ is in the crap.

Lol - Lake Onslow can indeed be developed. Its just a political issue.

So far we have been saved by the switch to more energy efficient appliances - LED/CFL light bulbs, and heat pumps reduced the number of resistive heaters being used.

But a reckoning is coming with the national vehicle fleet moving to electric instead of petrol/diesel. We can generate then transport the electricity no problem for overnight charging with time-of-use plans and demand management.
But when each house is going to be using 2x the number of units each month, those hydro damns are going to be running at a pretty high flow rate at night when normally the taps are turned down. Gonna be running out of water in the lakes quite a lot faster in the future.

At least with lake onslow, there is a buyer of electricity for exported solar during the day so it can be sold back at night for car charging - without the environmental problems that come with charging a stationary battery only to use that to charge a vehicle battery.

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mudguard

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#3272174 15-Aug-2024 16:56

Lias:

Has anyone else noticed that the greenie types seem to be luddites who want us to live without electricity entirely?

I'm a bit torn on this. On the one hand we risk wiping out a gecko/snail/bird that has existed here and nowhere else for a million years. Vs hydro generally being pretty clean.

Obviously our population isn't static, but I kind of see it like how mobile phone companies work with their batteries. They make improvement in chips or battery life or some other efficiency but rather than reducing battery size or increasing life, they use the extra efficiency to power something else.

Is your average household using more kWh per month now than ten years ago, twenty? I'd assume so. I should look up our bill, but we are probably not a good example, a couple and I travel Monday to Friday so our usage is probably low.

mattwnz

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#3272222 15-Aug-2024 19:38

mudguard:

Is your average household using more kWh per month now than ten years ago, twenty? I'd assume so. I should look up our bill, but we are probably not a good example, a couple and I travel Monday to Friday so our usage is probably low.

The issue in terms of household usage increasing, is we are converting from things like wood burners and gas, to heat pumps, which increases electricity usage. Then we also have people with EVs as more people switch to them. (Although EV uptake has slowed somewhat due to recent government policy changes). So household power usage is going to increase, as electricity is taking more and more of the load. Increasing power prices results in people reducing their usage, but that has negative effects, especially with elderly and low income people. Getting rid of the low daily rate has only compounded this problem, as it is resulting in significant price hikes for them.

wired

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#3272280 15-Aug-2024 22:38

wellygary:

Plus every beach house and bach.....

low user plans are only available for your primary residence so can’t be used for a Bach or a water pump on a farm etc.

wired

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#3272283 15-Aug-2024 22:57

mattwnz:

mudguard:

Is your average household using more kWh per month now than ten years ago, twenty? I'd assume so. I should look up our bill, but we are probably not a good example, a couple and I travel Monday to Friday so our usage is probably low.

The issue in terms of household usage increasing, is we are converting from things like wood burners and gas, to heat pumps, which increases electricity usage. Then we also have people with EVs as more people switch to them. (Although EV uptake has slowed somewhat due to recent government policy changes). So household power usage is going to increase, as electricity is taking more and more of the load. Increasing power prices results in people reducing their usage, but that has negative effects, especially with elderly and low income people. Getting rid of the low daily rate has only compounded this problem, as it is resulting in significant price hikes for them.

No the average energy usage per dwelling has been continually decreasing over the last 10 years. Here is a link to a study by EECA slide 12. https://www.auckland.ac.nz/assets/business/our-research/docs/energy-centre/summer-school-2024-/Speaker-Slides---2024/l12%20Household%20energy%20use.pdf' target='_blank'>https://www.auckland.ac.nz/assets/business/our-research/docs/energy-centre/summer-school-2024-/Speaker-Slides---2024/l12%20Household%20energy%20use.pdf.
Talking with senior people in a lines company many years ago, they said that they had been noticing that for a while.

It was put down to more efficient appliances including heat pumps, better insulation and smaller homes (probably meant apartments).

wellygary

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#3272326 16-Aug-2024 08:45

wired:

low user plans are only available for your primary residence so can’t be used for a Bach or a water pump on a farm etc.

That's the official line,

But power companies don't ask/care, Low use was offered to us for our bach...

boosacnoodle

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#3272340 16-Aug-2024 09:19

wellygary:

That's the official line,

But power companies don't ask/care, Low use was offered to us for our bach...

I was just wondering now how they would enforce this. By definition, a low user would not use much.

Zeon

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#3276055 28-Aug-2024 10:53

Electric Kiwi are about to head out of the electricity game as a result of this, got this email the other day. At our address Contact are offering $0.21/KWh anytime + 3 hours free per day....

Hi Zeon
We are writing today with some news regarding your power prices and the electricity market.

Unfortunately, wholesale costs are soaring like we have rarely seen in New Zealand.

What’s going on?

You may have seen in the news, and via our public comments that wholesale electricity conditions have recently worsened.

On the 18th of July we stopped accepting new electricity customers. When we made this decision wholesale prices had increased by 48% over six months and we’ve seen no improvement in the market since then.

As you can see in the below visual, the situation in New Zealand right now is pretty severe.

Why is wholesale rising so much?

We have been saying for years now that market reform is needed in order to stop the market failure and resulting mega-profits for the large gentailers in our industry.

In 2023 we raised a complaint with the Commerce Commission regarding misuse of market power in New Zealand energy markets. The Commission agreed there was an issue but passed responsibility for resolution to the Electricity Authority who have the policy tools to quickly enact market reform.

Commissioner John Small1 has stated “The wholesale electricity market is of real concern…we think it'll be much faster [to work with the Electricity Authority] than dragging four or five big companies through the courts for three years and then be told that three years ago what you did was illegal. That doesn't solve anything”.

Yet what has the Electricity Authority done to address this urgent problem? A year on and nothing has happened.

Meanwhile, unsurprisingly, the big four Gentailers - Mercury, Contact, Meridian and Genesis - are making record profits. In FY22 they made $1.9bn, in FY23 they made $2.2bn and all indications are that they’re on track for even larger profits in FY24.

New Zealand is in a great position to provide green energy at reasonable prices for Kiwi households and businesses. It will take innovation, integrity, and a market that fosters competition to get us there.

Price change notice

From 20th September 2024 your prices at XXXX, Auckland will change. The average cost increase for customers in your area is 84 cents per day. But you can reduce your costs by moving more power off-peak.

We hate doing this, and completely understand if you choose to seek better prices elsewhere. If you are looking around, we would suggest you use Powerswitch. This is a free site run by Consumer NZ that compares electricity prices.

Your prices are shown below (excluding GST):

Existing

Peak: $0.2803
Off-peak shoulder: $0.1963
Off-peak night: $0.1402

New

Peak: $0.3998
Off-peak shoulder: $0.2399
Off-peak night: $0.1999

Peak usage charges apply weekdays 7am-9am and 5pm-9pm. Off-peak night charges apply every day from 11pm-7am. Off-peak shoulder charges apply weekdays 9am-5pm and 9pm-11pm, and weekends 7am-11pm.

The amount of change you see on your bill will depend on your usage and how much you use during your Hour of Power and cheaper off-peak times.

Simple ways to do this include running the dishwasher, dryer or washing machine off-peak. But there’s a lot more you can do too. We’ve created a handy guide that will help you become a master of load shifting.

Electric Kiwi entered the market to make things better for Kiwis. We will continue to advocate for the change that is needed to get this industry back on track.

Thanks for being an Electric Kiwi customer. If you have questions for us please reach out.

Cheers,

Luke Blincoe
Chief Executive
Electric Kiwi

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michaelmurfy

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#3276058 28-Aug-2024 11:18

Zeon: Electric Kiwi are about to head out of the electricity game as a result of this, got this email the other day. At our address Contact are offering $0.21/KWh anytime + 3 hours free per day...

I was on EK a few years back and had quite a massive price bump causing me to move to Octopus who have been great.

I'm actually annoyed that the changes are really affecting the smaller companies advocating for cheaper power pricing. EK just can't compete and I imagine the same may happen to Octopus, Flick and other smaller providers who are not a Gentailer. This is forcing users to basically go to a Gentailer.

Just a year ago, Contact + Genesis were among the most expensive to provide power but now they're closing the gap compared to other providers and this really sucks.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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