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Topic # 32203 16-Apr-2009 09:16
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I went to a shop and asked for finance to buy a vehicle. They made me fill out the usual forms, and provide supporting documents.

The completed form was sent to the finance company, who replied with loan is conditionally approved - the conditions being A)Must be a 24 month term (was going to be anyway), and B) $500 deposit (was going to be anyway).

So based on their decision that it was accepted, and I had met the 2 conditions, I went and bought a heap of related items for the vehicle (not from the shop same shop).

I was then told by finance I needed to arrange insurance, pay for it, and prove this to them, which I promptly did. The shop then had to register the (new) vehicle, AND put it into my name.

But then when all the supporting documents were sent for "finalisation" (can't think of the correct word they used)... they went loopy over may payslips....

they said my payslips did not show company name (untrue), they do not show my start date (untrue), and that they didn't have a year to date total (they did however have a figure, which if a formula was applied to, gives the YTD total)... Anyway I then pointed this all out to them, but they didn't care and still wanted proof...

So right now this has been supplied to them, and I am waiting to hear back, as they are very slow.


By the way, this has dragged out so long in fact I now have the ownership papers for the vehicle in question.


So my question is, once one applies for finance and it is approved, can they just say no after that, or is "approved" approved?


I have never ever heard of a similar situation occuring amongst any of my friends, and everyone I tell is in disbelief over it, and some have said its against the CCCFA, and I have grounds for recourse if they decline it at this stage.

Their requirements at the "approved" stage was 2 payslips, no mention what payslips must show on them.

Any help/comments?


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  Reply # 207226 16-Apr-2009 09:20
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Lesson learned I guess - don't go buying up large until you have the item in your possession in your name!  Still, strange criteria for a finance company?!  I mean who would have a car registered and put in their name prior to actually transacting money and taking ownership of the vehicle?  That literally means anything that happens to the car between the time you register it and the time your finance is approved is liable to you?!  WEIRD!  Is this a well known finance company?

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  Reply # 207228 16-Apr-2009 09:29
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You did go to a proper finance company and not a loan shark didn't you ?
How much interest are they charging by the way ?
And did you get quotes from other companies.
Last time we got a loan we used our bank for the loan.




"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -
  --  Abraham lincoln

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 207229 16-Apr-2009 09:29
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Yeah I was under the impression the finalisation part was just them entering all the info into a database, ie the approved decision was already made, it was now in my name, all ready to go, just waiting for them to say data was entered and completed.

If it doesn't go through, I'm out of pocket for the insurance, and shop has had to register, and pay the registration on a vehicle that may not sell in immediate future, plus now the "new" vehicle will already have me as a recorded owner, not sure how hard this is to remove.

PLUS all the factory warranty books, and factory paperwork/ legal paperwork, has all been filled out by me and processed.

And yes the finance company is a well known and busy finance company. When the things were sent for "finalisation", there were 70 people (nationally) in front of me that day for same thing.


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  Reply # 207230 16-Apr-2009 09:33
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Comradehunt:


So right now this has been supplied to them, and I am waiting to hear back, as they are very slow.


By the way, this has dragged out so long in fact I now have the ownership papers for the vehicle in question.


So my question is, once one applies for finance and it is approved, can they just say no after that, or is "approved" approved?




You have the ownership papers?, So the dealer has transferred the ownership to you without being paid by the finance company?.

If you look at the terms and conditions, I think you will find that there are a number of clauses that the finance company can use the "unapprove" something that they had previously "approved"

Until the money is in your (or the dealer's) hot little hand nothing is final. 

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  Reply # 207231 16-Apr-2009 09:35
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Comradehunt:
and shop has had to register, and pay the registration on a vehicle that may not sell in immediate future, 



As far as I'm aware a car dealer must register a vehicle prior to sale anyway, even if they register it and sell it 5 months later with 1 month registration left, it must be registered for them to be legally able to sell it.  private sale is different i think.

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  Reply # 207232 16-Apr-2009 09:38
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By the way, this has dragged out so long in fact I now have the ownership papers for the vehicle in question.. 


 


LOL you have ownership papers -in your name?? then you legally own the car and there's no recourse from anyone.  What a botchup


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  Reply # 207233 16-Apr-2009 09:39
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Comradehunt:
The completed form was sent to the finance company, who replied with loan is conditionally approved - the conditions being A)Must be a 24 month term (was going to be anyway), and B) $500 deposit (was going to be anyway).



As you said it was conditionally approved, not confirmed at that stage. Even with the two conditions listed being completed they still have the right to deny the loan at any stage or request more information or supporting evidence.



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  Reply # 207240 16-Apr-2009 10:04
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To answer previous questions, once the finance was approved, they would not finalise it (for anyone nationally) until it was insured and in the new owners name. Thats the deal with the finance.

So this means that all those other 70 people that day before me, and every other day, would need to arrange insurance and get the vehicle in their name BEFORE finalisation could be done.

So yes the ownership papers are in my name, and so are the warranty books (try explaining that to the next "new" owner). Although ownership papers do not consitute legal ownership.

So this is not a mistake or botch up, its how their system works. So thats why I believed that to let things go that far before finalising, must mean the approved means approved.

I mean imagine that 70+ people every day going through this, surely 5 or 10 of those people each day could be turned away for some lame excuse, and the poor people and vehicle dealerships are left out of pocket $100s, and with new vehicles under "non owners" names. What a disaster!!??

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  Reply # 207261 16-Apr-2009 11:40
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Comradehunt: Although ownership papers do not consitute legal ownership.



As far as I was aware they do


EDIT: hang on, i'm guessing they haven't been sent in for them to be made official etc from LTNZ.  so you're right.  I was going on the assumption that they had been processed but i'm guessing there hasn't been enough time.



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  Reply # 207267 16-Apr-2009 12:11
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gehenna:

EDIT: hang on, i'm guessing they haven't been sent in for them to be made official etc from LTNZ.  so you're right.  I was going on the assumption that they had been processed but i'm guessing there hasn't been enough time.


No its official. The dealers changed the ownership into my name at the AA last week, and after the weekend I now have the actual ownership paperwork from LTNZ, (this has dragged on since 2 weeks before this).

And I remember the word now, its not "finalizing" its "settlement".

And to answer a previous question, the interest rate is very low 5%.

The frustrating part is every piece of correspondence sent to them (for them to reply to), or from them, takes 24 hours to get a reply, thats why this has become such a hassle, and why I'm taking time off work, etc to deal with them.

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  Reply # 207283 16-Apr-2009 12:52
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Comradehunt:
gehenna:

EDIT: hang on, i'm guessing they haven't been sent in for them to be made official etc from LTNZ.  so you're right.  I was going on the assumption that they had been processed but i'm guessing there hasn't been enough time.


No its official. The dealers changed the ownership into my name at the AA last week, and after the weekend I now have the actual ownership paperwork from LTNZ, (this has dragged on since 2 weeks before this).

And I remember the word now, its not "finalizing" its "settlement".

And to answer a previous question, the interest rate is very low 5%.

The frustrating part is every piece of correspondence sent to them (for them to reply to), or from them, takes 24 hours to get a reply, thats why this has become such a hassle, and why I'm taking time off work, etc to deal with them.



Okay so how are officially processed ownership papers not legally constituting proof of ownership?

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  Reply # 207288 16-Apr-2009 13:02
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gehenna:
Comradehunt:
gehenna:

EDIT: hang on, i'm guessing they haven't been sent in for them to be made official etc from LTNZ.  so you're right.  I was going on the assumption that they had been processed but i'm guessing there hasn't been enough time.


No its official. The dealers changed the ownership into my name at the AA last week, and after the weekend I now have the actual ownership paperwork from LTNZ, (this has dragged on since 2 weeks before this).

And I remember the word now, its not "finalizing" its "settlement".

And to answer a previous question, the interest rate is very low 5%.

The frustrating part is every piece of correspondence sent to them (for them to reply to), or from them, takes 24 hours to get a reply, thats why this has become such a hassle, and why I'm taking time off work, etc to deal with them.





Okay so how are officially processed ownership papers not legally constituting proof of ownership?


From LTNZ
"the buyer receives a Certificate of Registration. Note that this is not a legal title for the vehicle. It merely records the details of who is responsible for the vehicle — and who is liable for the licensing fees."

The finance company will "own" most of the car but don't get the tickets.



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  Reply # 207294 16-Apr-2009 13:12
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gehenna:

Okay so how are officially processed ownership papers not legally constituting proof of ownership?


It says that on them. "This certificate shows that ownership has been transferred into your name and does not constitute legal ownership"

For example - one time I had a car listed on TradeMe, the person took the plate details off the photos, and tranferred the ownership into his name on the transact website (and he paid by credit card), so the transaction was completed and he had new ownership papers showing he was the "owner", while I still had car and had not even sold to him (at that stage).

So just because ones name is on the paperwork doesn't legally make them the owner.

Perhaps another interpretation of it is that my name is there as the "owner", but the "legal owner" is the finance company.

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  Reply # 207448 17-Apr-2009 06:18
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The thing that's muddying the waters here and possibly causing a level of confusion is the use of the term "ownership papers."  You should be talking about "Registration papers."

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  Reply # 207451 17-Apr-2009 07:15
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gehenna: LOL you have ownership papers -in your name?? then you legally own the car and there's no recourse from anyone.  What a botchup

Not so.

Ownership papers are virtually meaningless.

Anyone who holds a security over the car can retrieve it (under certain conditions).







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