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Topic # 42635 8-Oct-2009 14:10
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Want to go and buy some panadol for your headache from the pharmacy? I don't think you can do this now without going to the doctor to get a prescription:

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/cold-medicine-need-prescription-3054681

Don't say i have to waste my money to go to the doctor when i already know what medicine i need.

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  Reply # 262404 8-Oct-2009 14:25
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kidsmith98789: Want to go and buy some panadol for your headache from the pharmacy? I don't think you can do this now without going to the doctor to get a prescription:

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/cold-medicine-need-prescription-3054681

Don't say i have to waste my money to go to the doctor when i already know what medicine i need.


If you don't know the difference between paracetamol and pseudoephedrine you should stick to going to the doctor :)

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  Reply # 262408 8-Oct-2009 14:52
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Phenylephrine in my experience is absolute rubbish. Cold meds with it don't seem any better than just taking plain paracetamol.

I've still got half a packet of Coldral Night & Day with Pseudoephedrine. I guess I'll always try and keep some spare.

Dragging myself outdoors and to the doctor and paying a fortune to do so doesn't really appeal. Neither does the thought of possibly giving the flu to patients with other problems while sitting in the waiting room.

Bah!

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 262412 8-Oct-2009 14:57
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The real problem is that the replacement for pseudoephedrine - phenylephrine - just doesnt work.

I have had a flu bout in the last week, brought some meds with phenylephrine that didnt do a thing except make me sleep all day. Went back to the chemist and brought some old school pseudoephedrine based pills and they cleared ny nose up straight away. Looks like I'll be off to the doctor everytime I get the flu now.

I would like to see how much P is actually made from locally brought cold medicines as from watching the news it looks like most of the pseudoephedrine is imported from China now a days.




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  Reply # 262416 8-Oct-2009 15:07
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Wouldn't the meds be cheaper on pescription anyway? I haven't been to the doctor for years, but I thought a lot of prescription medicines were subsidised. That would offset the cost of the doctor's visit a little, anyway.

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  Reply # 262419 8-Oct-2009 15:21
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I doubt it would be cheaper, they would agree that increased costs would deter P addicts, and due to less being sold, the cost per unit would go up.

And I agree, the PE does crap all for anyone in my family. A Paracetamol/Asprin/Loratadine combination seems to work better.

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  Reply # 262421 8-Oct-2009 15:29
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geekiegeek: I would like to see how much P is actually made from locally brought cold medicines as from watching the news it looks like most of the pseudoephedrine is imported from China now a days.



Yeah and the news is always right! Yes some is imported from China but there are still a lot of 'pill shoppers' in NZ. I can't give you figures because I don't know them but through my job I know of many instances of pill shopping.

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  Reply # 262451 8-Oct-2009 16:35
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Bung:
kidsmith98789: Want to go and buy some panadol for your headache from the pharmacy? I don't think you can do this now without going to the doctor to get a prescription:

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/cold-medicine-need-prescription-3054681

Don't say i have to waste my money to go to the doctor when i already know what medicine i need.


If you don't know the difference between paracetamol and pseudoephedrine you should stick to going to the doctor :)


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  Reply # 262455 8-Oct-2009 16:48
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geekiegeek:

I would like to see how much P is actually made from locally brought cold medicines as from watching the news it looks like most of the pseudoephedrine is imported from China now a days.


 

This is exactly right!  John Key is acting like a freaken moron!  I wish I could take my vote back now..  When I woke up and saw this it made me very mad; with attempts to stop the use of P (the minority) affecting the majority!  Ban imports of pseudoephdrine except through specific channels.  Why should I pay 35 bucks to see the GP who then prescribes me a $30 medication!?

While they are at it they should ban panedine and other codeine based pain relievers so the addicts cant get their fix!!

If he thinks this decision is going to be a popular he may be very surprised.  I think he will find the main users of the medication are the socio economic group that votes for him

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  Reply # 262463 8-Oct-2009 17:04
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itxtme: Ban imports of pseudoephdrine except through specific channels.


Do you really think the imported stuff intended for drug manufacture comes through normal channels? It's not declared as is.

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  Reply # 262476 8-Oct-2009 18:05
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 This is exactly right!  John Key is acting like a freaken moron!  I wish I could take my vote back now..  When I woke up and saw this it made me very mad; with attempts to stop the use of P (the minority) affecting the majority! 



How little you know. I'm directly involved in dealing with people who take drugs and you have NO idea how many people are actually doing it. Just because you don't hear about it much in the media doesn't mean that people aren't doing it, and you also have no idea how involved the gangs are in all of this.


This is a great move that will help (not eliminate) curb the manufacturing process, and if you only knew what I know about the whole industry you wouldn't be making such misinformed comments.

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  Reply # 262489 8-Oct-2009 18:42
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corksta:
 This is exactly right!  John Key is acting like a freaken moron!  I wish I could take my vote back now..  When I woke up and saw this it made me very mad; with attempts to stop the use of P (the minority) affecting the majority! 


How little you know. I'm directly involved in dealing with people who take drugs and you have NO idea how many people are actually doing it. Just because you don't hear about it much in the media doesn't mean that people aren't doing it, and you also have no idea how involved the gangs are in all of this.

This is a great move that will help (not eliminate) curb the manufacturing process, and if you only knew what I know about the whole industry you wouldn't be making such misinformed comments.


I am a frontline health service provider, so can promise you I know more than you ignorantly suggest.  I am involved with the hundreds of thousands of people who deal with symptomatic colds and flus that directly benefit from the medication!  I also deal with the ramifications of drug abuse on a daily basis in the emergency setting – I know the affects drugs have.

It has just been quoted only 10-30% of pseudo is sourced from local supplies.  There are mechanisms in place to curve this number and if more are required, so be it.  To go to the extreme of requiring prescriptions of a drug that is fundamentally safe but abusive when chemically adjusted is madness.

The affects are not only going to be felt personally but economically.  People who have traditionally taken 1-2 days off for illness will now take 5 or more refusing to pay 60 – 70 dollars for a course of symptom based treatments.  Gp services in NZ are at an all time low in regards to providing service.  ED’s (emergency departments) are being passed the buck and in turn are at breaking points themselves.  Wgtn hospital ED was full to the brims last night and you are arrogant if you don’t think this will have an affect!  Whats more is this is merely dealing with 10-30% of the source for P, what about the imports?  Is that not worthy of more than a few more custom officers??

What about dealing with the supply of other chemicals for production of P, pseudo is not the only ingredient!!

I could argue this with you all day and still get nowhere; Get off of your high horse and look at the bigger picture.  The easy option is to ban it over the counter, but it is not the best option!

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  Reply # 262495 8-Oct-2009 19:03
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Well Mr Angry I'm not going to argue with you either everyone is entitled to an opinion! Surely if you claim to deal with the ramifications of drug abuse you can't say that it only affects the minority when there are so many more people involved in the bigger picture than just the users.



I'm highly dubious that people will take more time off work there are other products out there!



I only deal with the people who are actually on P (not in counselling, rehabilitation, etc) but know how they fit into the grand scheme of it all, so any move designed to help put a halt to its manufacture gets a tick from me. It won't stop P but it will now make it harder to manufacture and is a step in the right direction.



Great lifestyle when a senior gang member (and yes this happens) can walk into a Holden dealership and buy a brand new HSV with cash.




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  Reply # 262501 8-Oct-2009 19:29
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itxtme:
corksta:
 This is exactly right!  John Key is acting like a freaken moron!  I wish I could take my vote back now..  When I woke up and saw this it made me very mad; with attempts to stop the use of P (the minority) affecting the majority! 


How little you know. I'm directly involved in dealing with people who take drugs and you have NO idea how many people are actually doing it. Just because you don't hear about it much in the media doesn't mean that people aren't doing it, and you also have no idea how involved the gangs are in all of this.

This is a great move that will help (not eliminate) curb the manufacturing process, and if you only knew what I know about the whole industry you wouldn't be making such misinformed comments.


I am a frontline health service provider, so can promise you I know more than you ignorantly suggest.  I am involved with the hundreds of thousands of people who deal with symptomatic colds and flus that directly benefit from the medication!  I also deal with the ramifications of drug abuse on a daily basis in the emergency setting – I know the affects drugs have.

It has just been quoted only 10-30% of pseudo is sourced from local supplies.  There are mechanisms in place to curve this number and if more are required, so be it.  To go to the extreme of requiring prescriptions of a drug that is fundamentally safe but abusive when chemically adjusted is madness.

The affects are not only going to be felt personally but economically.  People who have traditionally taken 1-2 days off for illness will now take 5 or more refusing to pay 60 – 70 dollars for a course of symptom based treatments.  Gp services in NZ are at an all time low in regards to providing service.  ED’s (emergency departments) are being passed the buck and in turn are at breaking points themselves.  Wgtn hospital ED was full to the brims last night and you are arrogant if you don’t think this will have an affect!  Whats more is this is merely dealing with 10-30% of the source for P, what about the imports?  Is that not worthy of more than a few more custom officers??

What about dealing with the supply of other chemicals for production of P, pseudo is not the only ingredient!!

I could argue this with you all day and still get nowhere; Get off of your high horse and look at the bigger picture.  The easy option is to ban it over the counter, but it is not the best option!


I agree 100%. We will see the maximum effect of this decision in winter 2010/cold/flu season. People will complain because they have to wait at least 2 weeks before they can see their GP - some will end up in ED. Then it will be all over newspaper when patients have to wait for more than 12 hours before they are being seen in ED.

This 'simple' decision will put more strain on the current health system.





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  Reply # 262502 8-Oct-2009 19:31
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That's pure speculation nakedmolerat. You can't quantify that.

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  Reply # 262515 8-Oct-2009 20:00
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corksta: That's pure speculation nakedmolerat.


I would say it is an intelligent guess based on common sense.

Flu/Cold - OTC meds - Rest - Recover (cost $15)

Flu/Cold - See GP/ED - Meds - Rest - Recover (cost $45 + time)

How many days patients have to wait before they can see their GP? Should we reduce the consultation time from 10 mins to 5 mins during the flu season? Yeay...

 

corksta: You can't quantify that.


Of course I cant. But I can quantify the result of banning OTC pseudoephedrines.

Also according to research done, most P cooks used only 10% of pseudoephedrines bought over the counter in New Zealand in making P, with most of ingredients used coming into the country illegally.

Yeay, by banning the pseudoephedrines, we can stop 10% of the P from being sold on the street... If those drug dealers on the street used to earn $100 per day, now they earn $90... 






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