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  Reply # 262527 8-Oct-2009 20:35
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An article 16 months old??? Ok......... Intelligent guess still equals speculation!

Do you honestly believe P dealers make $100 a day?! Look up the price for 0.1g of P, you might be surprised.

End of the day the law is changing and it will make a positive impact. It's just a shame that some people can't see that and have got their noses out of joint as if pseudoephedrine based products were their lifeline, and are ignoring the problems this drug creates for society.

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  Reply # 262557 8-Oct-2009 22:37
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corksta: An article 16 months old??? Ok......... Intelligent guess still equals speculation!

Do you honestly believe P dealers make $100 a day?! Look up the price for 0.1g of P, you might be surprised.

End of the day the law is changing and it will make a positive impact. It's just a shame that some people can't see that and have got their noses out of joint as if pseudoephedrine based products were their lifeline, and are ignoring the problems this drug creates for society.


I don;t think it would be such an issue if it wasnt so expensive to see a doctor. We just don't have the money to chuck around like we used to which is the problem.

Personally, if I had the security (money wise), then I would have no issue what-so-ever about this law change.
I know some might say it's >45 a visit every now and then, however, some of us get sick more often - not to mention, there are some single parents out there, like my mum, who is supporting more than just herself.

I think personally this is where the problems are introduced, otherwise, i think the change is good.






 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 262563 8-Oct-2009 22:53
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Mr angry man? I am merely stating the facts of our health care system. You need to get the bigger picture!! How can you honestly say that making the drug prescription will fix the promblem - to quote yourself "Thats only speculation".

The efficacy of pseudo has been proven reliably against any other "alternative"; my personal thoughts are Mr Key thinks this will earn him brownie points with NZ with a tough stance on P. Again I ask why is making pseudo preescription the "best" and "only" option?? Corksta you still fail to quantify the problem of P withim the realm of cold and flu treatment. Medicine has and always will be about the greater good, and your personal views of people on crystal meth clearly are disabling your ability to make a rational unbiased comment.

Lets put this into another medical event which occured 3 years ago; there was wide spread misuse of the drug nitrousoxide through the use of icing cylinders, the sale for the purpose of ingestion was made illegal but never did the government contenplate the need for you to go to your doctor to ice your cake

ADDED

And YES it does only affect the minority, because by definition the minority is a statistical sample less than the group who dont take it!!!

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  Reply # 262591 9-Oct-2009 06:49
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Tamiflu >>>> Everything.

A few months ago I was really sick for like 3 weeks and nothing worked. Kept getting better, then sick again. Got some Tamiflu and that cleared me up within like 24 hours.

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  Reply # 262606 9-Oct-2009 08:10
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REally it isnt that expensive to see a doctor anymore anyway...sign up to a PHO and you are away $15 a pop.

Im one of the lucky ones who dont have to pay, only because my wife works at a maori helath organisation and family get free doctors visits




For billions of years since the outset of time, every single one of your ancestors survived, every single person on your Mum and Dads side, successfully looked after and passed onto you life.  What are the chances of that like?

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  Reply # 262607 9-Oct-2009 08:11
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geekiegeek: The real problem is that the replacement for pseudoephedrine - phenylephrine - just doesnt work.

I have had a flu bout in the last week, brought some meds with phenylephrine that didnt do a thing except make me sleep all day. Went back to the chemist and brought some old school pseudoephedrine based pills and they cleared ny nose up straight away. Looks like I'll be off to the doctor everytime I get the flu now.

I would like to see how much P is actually made from locally brought cold medicines as from watching the news it looks like most of the pseudoephedrine is imported from China now a days.


Appropriate avatar is approriate




For billions of years since the outset of time, every single one of your ancestors survived, every single person on your Mum and Dads side, successfully looked after and passed onto you life.  What are the chances of that like?

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  Reply # 262648 9-Oct-2009 10:14
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nakedmolerat:
Also according to research done, most P cooks used only 10% of pseudoephedrines bought over the counter in New Zealand in making P, with most of ingredients used coming into the country illegally.

Yeay, by banning the pseudoephedrines, we can stop 10% of the P from being sold on the street... If those drug dealers on the street used to earn $100 per day, now they earn $90... 



I think Key just wants to be SEEN to be doing something than actually doing something.

If prohibition of ANYTHING worked, people wouldn't be using these substances.




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  Reply # 262659 9-Oct-2009 10:53
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itxtme:
corksta:
 This is exactly right!  John Key is acting like a freaken moron!  I wish I could take my vote back now..  When I woke up and saw this it made me very mad; with attempts to stop the use of P (the minority) affecting the majority! 


How little you know. I'm directly involved in dealing with people who take drugs and you have NO idea how many people are actually doing it. Just because you don't hear about it much in the media doesn't mean that people aren't doing it, and you also have no idea how involved the gangs are in all of this.

This is a great move that will help (not eliminate) curb the manufacturing process, and if you only knew what I know about the whole industry you wouldn't be making such misinformed comments.


I am a frontline health service provider, so can promise you I know more than you ignorantly suggest.  I am involved with the hundreds of thousands of people who deal with symptomatic colds and flus that directly benefit from the medication!  I also deal with the ramifications of drug abuse on a daily basis in the emergency setting – I know the affects drugs have.

It has just been quoted only 10-30% of pseudo is sourced from local supplies.  There are mechanisms in place to curve this number and if more are required, so be it.  To go to the extreme of requiring prescriptions of a drug that is fundamentally safe but abusive when chemically adjusted is madness.

The affects are not only going to be felt personally but economically.  People who have traditionally taken 1-2 days off for illness will now take 5 or more refusing to pay 60 – 70 dollars for a course of symptom based treatments.  Gp services in NZ are at an all time low in regards to providing service.  ED’s (emergency departments) are being passed the buck and in turn are at breaking points themselves.  Wgtn hospital ED was full to the brims last night and you are arrogant if you don’t think this will have an affect!  Whats more is this is merely dealing with 10-30% of the source for P, what about the imports?  Is that not worthy of more than a few more custom officers??

What about dealing with the supply of other chemicals for production of P, pseudo is not the only ingredient!!

I could argue this with you all day and still get nowhere; Get off of your high horse and look at the bigger picture.  The easy option is to ban it over the counter, but it is not the best option!



I've got to agree with you on this! Why not ban Coffee Filters as well? Or Rock Salt? Both important parts of the manufacture process! If the P cooks want to get Psuedo than they will, banning it from over the counter sales is another case of an over-protective nanny state. As it happens I believe Pharmacists in this country are excellent at filtering out illegitimate sales of Psuedo based drugs, if an honest bloke such as myself or my wonderful partner can't buy these Cold Meds (we've both been denied several times - both white, middle class, well dressed, well spoken etc...) than what chance does your average P cook have? (for the record I know that P cooks use mules to buy the drugs for them, I was just making a point).

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  Reply # 262669 9-Oct-2009 11:11
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Why has the argument reduced to pills?

"An expert in the causes of allergies and airways disease, and the treatment of asthma, Prof Black said today that a nasal spray, such as xylometazoline, sold as Otrivine or Drixine, could work in a similar way.

"Xylometazoline spray is an effective alternative to pseudoephedrine"." Link

I've always found that Sudafed or the like worked but left you feeling toxic after more than a day or two.

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  Reply # 262704 9-Oct-2009 12:32
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Balchy: REally it isnt that expensive to see a doctor anymore anyway...sign up to a PHO and you are away $15 a pop.

Really?  I believe our local medical centre is part of a PHO and it still costs about $40 to go there.  Does it depend on where you live?

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  Reply # 262705 9-Oct-2009 12:34
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I didnt think so, but it may - shop around, I have seen it go from around $10-25 dollars in my area (hamilton)




For billions of years since the outset of time, every single one of your ancestors survived, every single person on your Mum and Dads side, successfully looked after and passed onto you life.  What are the chances of that like?

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  Reply # 262712 9-Oct-2009 12:45
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I checked the website and pretty much most of the centres on the North Shore are $30-$40. Of course, I could drive all the way to Birkdale if I want $15 doctors visits!

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  Reply # 262721 9-Oct-2009 12:54
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rscole86: I doubt it would be cheaper, they would agree that increased costs would deter P addicts, and due to less being sold, the cost per unit would go up.


I'm no economist, but if demand decreases, doesn't price also decrease?

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  Reply # 262722 9-Oct-2009 12:55
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Demand wouldnt decrease, supply would decrease, which would drive up prices




For billions of years since the outset of time, every single one of your ancestors survived, every single person on your Mum and Dads side, successfully looked after and passed onto you life.  What are the chances of that like?

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  Reply # 262737 9-Oct-2009 13:17
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I'm probably missing something here - If you need to spend more to get them (i.e, go to the doctor first), then how does that decrease supply?

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