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  Reply # 287755 7-Jan-2010 12:41

Sloth that idential computer is still being sold the only difference is that it has win 7 instead of xp. Hence it has a different model number. Therefore that would be the closest match for them. But them choosing to supply a totally different brand is just a weird solution and may still leave them open to compliants to the comcom due to them advertising the HP mini for days after it had sold out.

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  Reply # 287756 7-Jan-2010 12:41

Sloth that idential computer is still being sold the only difference is that it has win 7 instead of xp. Hence it has a different model number. Therefore that would be the closest match for them. But them choosing to supply a totally different brand is just a weird solution and may still leave them open to compliants to the comcom due to them advertising the HP mini for days after it had sold out.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 287761 7-Jan-2010 12:55
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robbyp: Sloth that idential computer is still being sold the only difference is that it has win 7 instead of xp. Hence it has a different model number. Therefore that would be the closest match for them. But them choosing to supply a totally different brand is just a weird solution and may still leave them open to compliants to the comcom due to them advertising the HP mini for days after it had sold out.


Good points. Really hard to see justification in a different brand being supplied other than to minimise cost for HN (and surely the Fair Trading Act is to protect the consumer not the retailer).

My brother and I both purchased one each and both paid the full $288 at the time of visting the shop and it will be most annoying if nothing is forthcoming until February. Surely by paying the full price there is a contract to supply an HP Mini (not just a raincheck for an unspecified brand) - in fact the reecipt states HP so why should anything else be acceptable as this is not listed on the receipt.

If a different brand is offered I wonder whether a comcom complaint would be significantly weakened if a customer initially took the offered machine with the clear statement that they may still pursue a FTA complaint to try to get an HP replacement if they are unhappy with what is supplied - HN have had some customers full payment for some time without supply so why should there be any problem with a customer still pursuing the matter after being supplied with a different brand if they find that it is inferior in their opinion. With some of the recent ComCom rulings I believe that HN should think carefully before they decide how to resolve these issues.

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  Reply # 287765 7-Jan-2010 13:09

drajk some good points especially the point that the Fair Trading Act is to protect the consumer not the retailer.

The win 7 version of the HP mini can probably be supplied now, while the Asus model XXX could still be a month away, which is an excessive amount of time to wait on this type of product. New models are currently being announced so these specs will look outdated in another month. Perhaps they are waiting for the pricedrop to come in, due to those new netbook releases, to save them money! They may end up making a profit.

I think the reasonable solution for the consumer would be for HN to supply the HP mini to the closest specs to the model on the invoice. If people do want the Asus, the specs on it should be considerably better than the HP mini to compensate on the long wait. What if you were going on holiday and needed it now.

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  Reply # 287783 7-Jan-2010 14:17
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tons: Well I would be quite disappointed if it were an Asus EEE 1000 (any of the 1000 derivatives - H, HA, HE etc). I think they are too chunky and the screen bezel (surround) is too wide, when compared to the HP Mini 110.

I feel that HN need to supply any one of Asus EEE 1001, 1002, 1005 or 1008. These machines are more in keeping with the size and style of the HP Mini 110.

Also, wouldn't it be nice for HN to 'over-deliver' (i.e. exceed everyone's expectations) on this issue to help save face and win-over it's customers? This means one of Asus EEE 1001, 1002, 1005 or 1008 to me.



I've already identified the 1005HA as most closely resembling the specs of the HP. The 1008HA has a fixed battery and only 2 USB ports. I haven't looked at the 1001 or 1002 yet but I'm guessing they might be too old now? The 1000 would have to be too old surely?

When I watched the 1005HA video review on CNET, the guy said that ASUS bring out new models more often than we have hot dinners. That would have to be a consideration, if HN are getting them made to spec ... ASUS would be resticted by whatever cases, mobo's, etc they have currently in production.

The 1005 and 1008 for example have different port configs, so different cases and mobo's. Might be impossible for ASUS to supply an old machine as they have moved their production tools onto manufacture of the newer design.

Someone does need to nail them down on a model number though. I find it suspicious that the message people seem to be getting is that they can tell us definitely it's an ASUS, but then can't give a model number. If they know it's an ASUS, someone at HN must know which model.


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  Reply # 287787 7-Jan-2010 14:30

Looked at the GP forums website, and it appears that the people who HN were phoning to inform them that they would be provided with an ASUS, are those same people who didn't pay for it, but only put their name down on a raincheck list. I paid in full and had to make a special trip into the store for the HP mini backorder as shown on the invoice, and haven't been contacted about it yet. Therefore I suspect they maybe offering different deals depending on whether you prepaid for it and it was on backorder, or whether you only have a raincheck and haven't yet paid for it. They say the ASUS will be the same specs, but I think that will be impossible, as the ASUS seems to only have a 0.3 MP camera, while the HP mini has a 1.3 MP web camera, and there are lots of other differences.The HP has a nice designer lid and a matt LCD screen while the Asus appears to be a  shiny black plastic lid with no design and a shiny LCD screen which will be difficult to use in daylight conditions.

LZ

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  Reply # 287790 7-Jan-2010 14:33
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Don't think that's the case. I have paid for mine and had heard nothing so I rang the local HN store this morning and was told it was a Asus device with the same specifications. I'm hoping HN will be more forthcoming with information soon otherwise I will be emailing their GM to get some clarity.

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  Reply # 287791 7-Jan-2010 14:36

andyj14:
tons: Well I would be quite disappointed if it were an Asus EEE 1000 (any of the 1000 derivatives - H, HA, HE etc). I think they are too chunky and the screen bezel (surround) is too wide, when compared to the HP Mini 110.

I feel that HN need to supply any one of Asus EEE 1001, 1002, 1005 or 1008. These machines are more in keeping with the size and style of the HP Mini 110.

Also, wouldn't it be nice for HN to 'over-deliver' (i.e. exceed everyone's expectations) on this issue to help save face and win-over it's customers? This means one of Asus EEE 1001, 1002, 1005 or 1008 to me.



I've already identified the 1005HA as most closely resembling the specs of the HP. The 1008HA has a fixed battery and only 2 USB ports. I haven't looked at the 1001 or 1002 yet but I'm guessing they might be too old now? The 1000 would have to be too old surely?

When I watched the 1005HA video review on CNET, the guy said that ASUS bring out new models more often than we have hot dinners. That would have to be a consideration, if HN are getting them made to spec ... ASUS would be resticted by whatever cases, mobo's, etc they have currently in production.

The 1005 and 1008 for example have different port configs, so different cases and mobo's. Might be impossible for ASUS to supply an old machine as they have moved their production tools onto manufacture of the newer design.

Someone does need to nail them down on a model number though. I find it suspicious that the message people seem to be getting is that they can tell us definitely it's an ASUS, but then can't give a model number. If they know it's an ASUS, someone at HN must know which model.




 

I think the whole Asustek thing may be speculation by HN staff in the store. They are asking people who haven't yet paid for it to make a special trip ii to pay, for what is an unknown ASUS model. That is not good enough. Surely if this was true that they were not able to supply HP minis,  Harvey Norman would post an announcement on their twiiter page. They have actually said that as soon as they know they would do this. Therefore I would have expected an announcement there first. Harvey Normans are not handling this well.



D.W

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  Reply # 287796 7-Jan-2010 14:48
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I think the whole Asustek thing may be speculation by HN staff in the store. They are asking people who haven't yet paid for it to make a special trip ii to pay, for what is an unknown ASUS model. That is not good enough. Surely if this was true that they were not able to supply HP minis,  Harvey Norman would post an announcement on their twiiter page. They have actually said that as soon as they know they would do this. Therefore I would have expected an announcement there first. Harvey Normans are not handling this well.


The Asus thing is not speculation by HN Staff.

Branches nationwide have called people confirmed they will be replacing with Asus.

They also confirmed they are on order, and gave us a rough ETA.

One person updates their twitter page by the looks, and it hasn't been updated since the 4th. Twitter is not an official medium of communication for Harvey Norman, their standard procedure is to call the customer and inform them of the situation, which is exactly what they have done.

In regards to which model and the webcam, both the 1005HA and 1008HA have 1.3MP cameras, N280 processors, 160GB HDD etc, same as the HP.

http://event.asus.com/eeepc/comparison/eeepc_comparison.htm

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  Reply # 287799 7-Jan-2010 14:56
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vinnieg: I think the major trouble in court would be just that an invoice is not considering a contract. So Harvey Normans have the full right to refund just by saying "out of stock". Unfortunately that's the way the CGA works


Except it's not the CGA that's being invoked here - it's the Fair Trading Act.

The CGA is in effect a guarantee that applies to goods and services. 

In this situation the FTA applies. Harvey Norman could have potentially breached section 19 of the act by not disclosing there were limited quantities of a product which would have led people to visit a store that had no stock. This is bait advertising.

Section 40 of the act gives clear guidelines for a defence - "That the contravention was due to a reasonable mistake" is the most common and in this case may have been sufficient for them to avoid being prosecuted.

In this case Harvey Norman decided to offer a rain check, which if you're to read the FTA guidelines

" A raincheck entitles the customer to future goods which are the same or similar to the goods at the advertised price"

It does not have to be the exact same brand, specs or colour. It simply needs to be an equivalent product.

It wouldn't surprise me if this will cost HN more than what they would have potentially been fined had they been found guilty of bait advertising. Some people need to take a deep breath and be grateful they have a rain check and will get a machine at a very good price.

In countries like the USA people queue all night for Black Friday specials so they can be sure they'll be at the store. In Australia there are huge queues at the doors of David Jones and Myer when they open on boxing day at 5am. If you want bargains you have to get in early..


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  Reply # 287803 7-Jan-2010 15:02

5loth:
 
I think the whole Asustek thing may be speculation by HN staff in the store. They are asking people who haven't yet paid for it to make a special trip ii to pay, for what is an unknown ASUS model. That is not good enough. Surely if this was true that they were not able to supply HP minis,  Harvey Norman would post an announcement on their twiiter page. They have actually said that as soon as they know they would do this. Therefore I would have expected an announcement there first. Harvey Normans are not handling this well.


The Asus thing is not speculation by HN Staff.

Branches nationwide have called people confirmed they will be replacing with Asus.

They also confirmed they are on order, and gave us a rough ETA.

One person updates their twitter page by the looks, and it hasn't been updated since the 4th. Twitter is not an official medium of communication for Harvey Norman, their standard procedure is to call the customer and inform them of the situation, which is exactly what they have done.

In regards to which model and the webcam, both the 1005HA and 1008HA have 1.3MP cameras, N280 processors, 160GB HDD etc, same as the HP.

http://event.asus.com/eeepc/comparison/eeepc_comparison.htm



 

Twitter is one of their mediums of communciation to their customers, and would be considered an official medium, since they have their logo on it and it is managed by their staff. It was actually their twiiter site that informed that they were honouring the deal for those that missed out, and they did state that any announcement would appear their first. They haven't phoned me, and they said they would phone me sometime this week, and there is still one day to go. They also haven't confirmed if the model they will supply is actually going to be the 1005 or 1008, other people have said it may be the 1000 models which are very different in terms of specs. Do these asus models have mat screens? The word 'similar' is too subjective, the fact that they are both netbooks with 160 harddrives may be similar enough.

I still believe they would be considered too different to be considered similar, as you could probably write a list of difference, including that the asus ones are a lot larger in terms of footprint. Whilst with HP minis, there is a model that is identical, with one minor difference being that it uses a newer version of windows software.

D.W

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  Reply # 287811 7-Jan-2010 15:16
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Twitter is one of their mediums of communciation to their customers, and would be considered an official medium, since they have their logo on it and it is managed by their staff. It was actually their twiiter site that informed that they were honouring the deal for those that missed out, and they did state that any announcement would appear their first. They haven't phoned me, and they said they would phone me sometime this week, and there is still one day to go. They also haven't confirmed if the model they will supply is actually going to be the 1005 or 1008, other people have said it may be the 1000 models which are very different in terms of specs. Do these asus models have mat screens? The word 'similar' is too subjective, the fact that they are both netbooks with 160 harddrives may be similar enough.

I still believe they would be considered too different to be considered similar, as you could probably write a list of difference, including that the asus ones are a lot larger in terms of footprint. Whilst with HP minis, there is a model that is identical, with one minor difference being that it uses a newer version of windows software.


It obviously can't be too official given half the branches weren't even aware they had a twitter page at the time of the sale.

I'm not sure how it all matters anyhow, most people by now have been called and told they are replacing with Asus, which is much more official than any Twitter update.

This is all a fairly pointless discussion by now really, they've said they're replacing with Asus, you've said you're not happy with Asus, you should probably get the ball rolling as to building your case if you want anything else.

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  Reply # 287813 7-Jan-2010 15:17

sbiddle:
vinnieg: I think the major trouble in court would be just that an invoice is not considering a contract. So Harvey Normans have the full right to refund just by saying "out of stock". Unfortunately that's the way the CGA works


Except it's not the CGA that's being invoked here - it's the Fair Trading Act.

The CGA is in effect a guarantee that applies to goods and services. 

In this situation the FTA applies. Harvey Norman could have potentially breached section 19 of the act by not disclosing there were limited quantities of a product which would have led people to visit a store that had no stock. This is bait advertising.

Section 40 of the act gives clear guidelines for a defence - "That the contravention was due to a reasonable mistake" is the most common and in this case may have been sufficient for them to avoid being prosecuted.

In this case Harvey Norman decided to offer a rain check, which if you're to read the FTA guidelines

" A raincheck entitles the customer to future goods which are the same or similar to the goods at the advertised price"

It does not have to be the exact same brand, specs or colour. It simply needs to be an equivalent product.

It wouldn't surprise me if this will cost HN more than what they would have potentially been fined had they been found guilty of bait advertising. Some people need to take a deep breath and be grateful they have a rain check and will get a machine at a very good price.

In countries like the USA people queue all night for Black Friday specials so they can be sure they'll be at the store. In Australia there are huge queues at the doors of David Jones and Myer when they open on boxing day at 5am. If you want bargains you have to get in early..




 

I believe the CGA would apply in the cases where people have purchased the item on backorder, hence a contract was formed. eg on My invoice it clearly states that the HP mini has been backordered, and I have paid in full for it. It makes no mention of rain checks. If they can't supply that exact model they will need to phone me to negotiate an alternative that I am happy with. In this case I would expect the updated model of the superseeded model to be provided. For those people who put their name down for a raincheck, they would be covered by the FTA, but that is a different story. That is why I was very surprised that Harvey Norman were requiring people to make a special trip in to prepay for the HP mini, they should have just been taking down names for a raincheck.

As I previously mentioned, the same or similar is subjective. However you would need to look what is normal practice when a model is superseeded. From my experience, in normal practice if you buy a sony TV, and it is on backorder, you are then phoned a few weeks later and told that that mode is no longer available, you are then offered the newest model under that brand. It is certainly not normal for the retailer to then provide you with a Philips TV with similar specs. The brand is one of the most important things when you are buying an appliance, as a companies reputation and success is purely built on it's brand and it's brand loyalty.



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  Reply # 287814 7-Jan-2010 15:17
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I got a phone call from the local HN computer manager, He said the Netbook should be here in the last week of Jan. He also said it was going to be an ASUS. I asked about the CPU and the model number but he didn't know and said they where getting/building a custom thing?
I forgot to ask about the OS :(

ASUS, nice, ASUS have dual touch - touch pad, unlike HP

Nice points again sbiddle, "A raincheck entitles the customer to future goods which are the same or similar to the goods at the advertised price"

I'm sure if you sent a DM to the HN twitter account, your would get a reply.

D.W

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  Reply # 287816 7-Jan-2010 15:20
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From my experience, in normal practice if you buy a sony TV, and it is on backorder, you are then phoned a few weeks later and told that that mode is no longer available, you are then offered the newest model under that brand. It is certainly not normal for the retailer to then provide you with a Philips TV with similar specs. The brand is one of the most important things when you are buying an appliance, as a companies reputation and success is purely built on it's brand and it's brand loyalty.


you are also offered a refund, which is all I expect you will get.


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