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  Reply # 310582 24-Mar-2010 09:32
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Yeah, on second thoughts you are right the .22 has no stopping power.

Shotgun would be great for close combat situations, but the downsides to it are the weight of the shells and the lack of range.

Also a must would be a silencer on all the weapons, Zombies have a heightened sense of hearing so a loud gun blast would see them flock to your location.

Fire is also a good way of disposing of zombie bodies, but setting one on fire to kill it would be a bad idea, Zombies do not feel pain and will keep on walking towards you (on fire too) and if they make it into your hideout then they can cause serious damage to it.

On clothing and apearance, I would keep my hair short and clothing non baggy. Zombies have a tendancy to grab and hold on very tight and drag you to your death.

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  Reply # 310589 24-Mar-2010 09:43
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patatrat: I've been thinking about how to survive a zombie apocalypse for some time, and I think the classic mistake in most films is that the survivors tend to want to get somewhere else.

Ideally, you'd want to set up a base somewhere. It'll have easy to manage and minimal entry points, solid ground structure and be easy to fortify. Essential characteristics of the base would be a large flat roof or a sunny artirum in which glasshouses and gardens could be set up, and water collection would be possible. It would also be good to have 360 degree views, preferably with high balconies from which to defend from on high.

You'd also want to set up an entry and exit procedure, both for raiding / scouting parties on foot, and for trucks - preferably a two gate system, open one gate, let the friendlies get in, close it, kill any zombies that came in as well, then open the 2nd gate.

You'd want inspections of any friendly entering the base for bites. Depending on the amount of time it takes for zombification to take hold, a temporary quarantine or holding cell on entry would be good. If we learnt anything from zombie films, it is that people tend to hide bites, thinking that they will be the one person who doesn't become a zombie. They enter the safe area, and boom... everyone get it, as the base is set up to defend from outside, not inside.

Of course, all of this goes out the window if we are in a Romero zombie apocalypse, as in his films, as soon as you die, no matter how, you turn in a zombie.


I think looking at some of the basic ideas of a Castle back in the day would be useful as well / regular fortifications.

never overestimate the value of a few trenches going right around the area, followed by a moat or two with a draw bridge.

Man traps are also good.

some have already mentioned the idea of armour, while leathers is definitely a good idea, I think you'd want to advance that to perhaps a kevlar / carbon fibre weave material for reinforcement.

I'd want light chainmail protection in the more vulnerable areas above the leather to begin with, but you'd have to work on developing a good hazmat armour.

probably with some built in pressure zones that will instantaneously tourniquet an accidentally exposed area (preventing the virus from spreading ) allowing amputation followed by secure observation - in the event of a bite, or a really sore arm / leg /hand / foot in the event of an accidental breaking of the suit.




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  Reply # 310594 24-Mar-2010 09:50
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inane:
freitasm:
Byrned: In the typical documentary on zombies, they don't need food (that we are told about anyway).  


Citation needed! AFAIC Zombies will eat brains.


""

Ernie Kaltenbrunner: You can hear me?
1/2 Woman Corpse: Yes.
Ernie Kaltenbrunner: Why do you eat people?
1/2 Woman Corpse: Not people. Brains.
Ernie Kaltenbrunner: Brains only?
1/2 Woman Corpse: Yes.
Ernie Kaltenbrunner: Why?
1/2 Woman Corpse: The PAIN!
Ernie Kaltenbrunner: What about the pain?
1/2 Woman Corpse: The pain of being DEAD!
Ernie Kaltenbrunner: [laughing in surprise to his friends] It hurts... to be dead.
1/2 Woman Corpse: I can feel myself rotting.
Ernie Kaltenbrunner: Eating brains... How does that make you feel?
1/2 Woman Corpse: It makes the pain go away!""""


it depends on what you take as Canon,

in some theories, the Zombies will die of starvation eventually (such as zombies in 28 days, or other movies where the zombification is infectious...
however, you are in trouble if they are resourceful such as in I Am Legend...

but you are also in trouble if it is a tradition zombie, as per the above quote, it won't stop coming for brains until its rotted to dust.

which adds all sorts of logistical issues for repopulating the human race, every time someone dies.. they come back as a zombie.. it would be troublesome, although it'd certainly encourage cremation!



A'HA if this were the case you could discover which chemical was helping them out and then give them a patch... undead aggression solved




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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 310604 24-Mar-2010 09:58
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inane: 

never overestimate the value of a few trenches going right around the area, followed by a moat or two with a draw bridge.

Man traps are also good.



There are a number of issues with trenches or moats.

Trenches won't stop Zombies. All it will do is lower them so they are possibly out of sight for shooting. There is also the issue of 'dead' zombie pile up. If you are shooting zombies at a specific range, you will end up with a wall of 'dead' zombies, that will probably fill the trench and render it useless. Digging a trench will probably be a waste of time.

Man traps probably won't kill Zombies, as you need to take off the head. You'll just end up with a bunch of zombies trapped, or with zombies still 'alive' but missing limbs. It will probably be a waste of time to set these up. 

You'll need to remember that any time spent outside of your fortifications is dangerous, and you'll want to do anything you can to limit time spent out there. 

Choke points are probably your best bet. Basically, set up your defences so that there is only one or two ways for zombies to come in, and make these entry points small, so you are only dealing with a small stream of zombies at any one time (rather then a huge hoard). The Zombies will patiently wait at the choke point for the traffic to clear, rather then overwhelming your defences. 

Natural choke points are best, as these will generally withstand zombies. Although trucks and buses would also make good, mobile choke points. As these are mobile, it would limit the time required outside to set them up.

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  Reply # 310610 24-Mar-2010 10:12
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patatrat:
inane: 

never overestimate the value of a few trenches going right around the area, followed by a moat or two with a draw bridge.

Man traps are also good.



There are a number of issues with trenches or moats.

Trenches won't stop Zombies. All it will do is lower them so they are possibly out of sight for shooting. There is also the issue of 'dead' zombie pile up. If you are shooting zombies at a specific range, you will end up with a wall of 'dead' zombies, that will probably fill the trench and render it useless. Digging a trench will probably be a waste of time.

Man traps probably won't kill Zombies, as you need to take off the head. You'll just end up with a bunch of zombies trapped, or with zombies still 'alive' but missing limbs. It will probably be a waste of time to set these up. 

You'll need to remember that any time spent outside of your fortifications is dangerous, and you'll want to do anything you can to limit time spent out there. 

Choke points are probably your best bet. Basically, set up your defences so that there is only one or two ways for zombies to come in, and make these entry points small, so you are only dealing with a small stream of zombies at any one time (rather then a huge hoard). The Zombies will patiently wait at the choke point for the traffic to clear, rather then overwhelming your defences. 

Natural choke points are best, as these will generally withstand zombies. Although trucks and buses would also make good, mobile choke points. As these are mobile, it would limit the time required outside to set them up.


Choke points are good no matter what you are fighting :)

I was thinking trenches will definitely slow zombies down, particularly if they are set up correctly with a flushing system (I'm based near the sea, so undrinkable water is readily available)

a negatively gear side on a trench is going to hold off a lot of zombies. ie



__    _______
   /    \
 /       \
/__%_\

where the "%" is a trapped zombie.


this would not be the only line of defence, but with the correct provisions, it wouldn't be too hard to have a fire burning in the trenches (yeah we have established burning zombies smell.



It all depends on the sheer numbers you are being attacked by, if for example you are getting hit by wave after wave of zombie, then you want every line of defence possible,

if on the other hand its less than 100 a night, its not so much of a worry.



You'd also want to set up decoy sites, with speakers etc. that could be set off remotely which would play the sound track of someone being attacked, possibly some gunshot noise etc.

that would be an emergency tool of distraction, or you could fire it off when you went into "lights off mode" at your base. (hey one of the best defences against a zombie is if they think you aren't there)





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  Reply # 310620 24-Mar-2010 10:28
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inane: 

You'd also want to set up decoy sites, with speakers etc. that could be set off remotely which would play the sound track of someone being attacked, possibly some gunshot noise etc.




This is quite a good idea. Your main issues to overcome will be power to the secondary site and remote activation.  

Land of the dead used fire works to successfully distract zombies while they ran raids or while they were attacked.

Of course, Romero's zombies, while slow, always throw a curve ball. In that film, the learnt to ignore the fireworks. As the fireworks were relied on, once they failed, the town was overrun.

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  Reply # 310621 24-Mar-2010 10:28
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There's been a lot of interesting ideas in this thread, but the main thing I've learnt from it is when the zombie apocalypse arrives almost all the survivors are going to be geeks. I for one look forward to that world, no more having to hide my pocket protector.

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  Reply # 310650 24-Mar-2010 11:25
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meesham: There's been a lot of interesting ideas in this thread, but the main thing I've learnt from it is when the zombie apocalypse arrives almost all the survivors are going to be geeks. I for one look forward to that world, no more having to hide my pocket protector.


Hrmmm... and possibly some clergy who have trained in "Turn undead"


**Shazam!** I just leveled this coversation to uber nerdy.

but seriously, fire might not dispose of zombies quickly... unles you go to the level of thermite. that I think might be more successfull.






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  Reply # 310715 24-Mar-2010 13:13
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inane:
meesham: There's been a lot of interesting ideas in this thread, but the main thing I've learnt from it is when the zombie apocalypse arrives almost all the survivors are going to be geeks. I for one look forward to that world, no more having to hide my pocket protector.


Hrmmm... and possibly some clergy who have trained in "Turn undead"


**Shazam!** I just leveled this coversation to uber nerdy.

but seriously, fire might not dispose of zombies quickly... unles you go to the level of thermite. that I think might be more successfull.





In order to remain safe, the zombie trap must be simple, not use scarce materials and easy to reset.

Zombies are like army ants, only bigger.  They will overcome most fortifications purely through their combined mass.  If you rely on fire to keep the trap clear, eventually you're going to run out of fire-making stuff.  The same goes with water.  If they can clog the hole with bodies (which for any post-apocalypse man-made hole they can), you're in trouble.

So, I'm thinking that a small mountain trail beside a cliff into a deep ravine with sheer walls is good.  you stand above the climbing zombie and use a giant spatula on a pivot. :)




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  Reply # 310722 24-Mar-2010 13:19
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ok, so we all have an established short to medium term plan... but what about the immediate plan? I would say the highest risk period is during the initial outbreak... when you are walking through the malls with the missus... or might be sitting at work, or at a cafe, and all of a sudden it breaks out....

what do you do to avoid getting yourself bitten / deadified or trapped? how do you rendezvous with others?




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 310724 24-Mar-2010 13:23
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this is where i turn back to my original post... a hole under the house to hide in untill things calm down slightly and you have composed yourself




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  Reply # 310729 24-Mar-2010 13:29
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pageweon: this is where i turn back to my original post... a hole under the house to hide in untill things calm down slightly and you have composed yourself




No good. You have to get to the hole  and your house first.

For the rest of this discussion, lets all assume that the Zombie apocolypse does not come when you are:


 - At a military show
- in your purpose built underground bunker
- at home at all
- while you are at a gun / survivalist store.


lets assume it happens when you are in a day to day location such as at work or out shopping.

you need to take this seriously people. plus its pretty easy to say "oh when it happens I'll be in my impregnable fortress of solitude so I'll wait it out"

what if you aren't home? how do you get to your hole in the ground, castle, safepoint.

name the scenario you're in and how you get out of it.





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  Reply # 310743 24-Mar-2010 13:56
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inane: you need to take this seriously people. plus its pretty easy to say "oh when it happens I'll be in my impregnable fortress of solitude so I'll wait it out"


I think you're taking this quite serious enough for the rest of us...




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  Reply # 310744 24-Mar-2010 14:00
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davidcole:
inane: you need to take this seriously people. plus its pretty easy to say "oh when it happens I'll be in my impregnable fortress of solitude so I'll wait it out"


I think you're taking this quite serious enough for the rest of us...



What do you really thing those civil defence ads are about? its not _really_ about natural disasters...





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  Reply # 310753 24-Mar-2010 14:20
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Okay,

So you've just realised that people around you are turning into zombies. This is my plan for the first few hours.

Firstly - (with thanks to zombie land) Cardio. Get out of buildings where you could get trapped in a panic or if the power goes out.

Forget about calling loved ones, the network will probably be down. Forget about getting your wallet - no one will be accepting eft-pos for a while.

Find transportation to get out of the city if you are at work and it is the middle of the day. In the city, it will spread quickly.

Forget a car at this point. There will be more people running away than zombies at this early stage, so the extra protection afforded by a car is not worth the possibility of getting stuck in a traffic jam. Steal a motorbike. You can go around car crashes, traffic jams, or go off the road.

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