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  Reply # 312362 29-Mar-2010 12:08
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what about "facts later relied upon"? doesn't that mean it makes sense to talk to the police? or is that uk only?

:)
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  Reply # 312367 29-Mar-2010 12:15
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When I get some free time. I will.





 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 312386 29-Mar-2010 13:16
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patznz: Basically you have to tell the police your details, they cannot search you or your property without your consent (or under the misuse of drug acts ect and then they have to tell you). It is always best never to say anything more to police, as they will never help you out. If you do get arrested, dont fight with police, this is not the time to plead your innocence they dont care, save it for court.


If the Police have a search warrant, or specific statutory authority... 

They must, first, tell you what this specific authority is - there is a range of search powers. Common cases include specific powers to:
stop a vehicle if someone in it is subject to an arrest warrant or has committed an offence punishable by imprisonment
search the vehicle for an offender or for evidence of an offence in respect of which the vehicle was stopped
search premises or a vehicle for controlled drugs

What happens if you refuse to give consent to a search of your vehicle or premises ? Are you then arrested ?




My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government


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  Reply # 312412 29-Mar-2010 14:57
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SepticSceptic:
patznz: Basically you have to tell the police your details, they cannot search you or your property without your consent (or under the misuse of drug acts ect and then they have to tell you). It is always best never to say anything more to police, as they will never help you out. If you do get arrested, dont fight with police, this is not the time to plead your innocence they dont care, save it for court.


If the Police have a search warrant, or specific statutory authority... 

They must, first, tell you what this specific authority is - there is a range of search powers. Common cases include specific powers to:
stop a vehicle if someone in it is subject to an arrest warrant or has committed an offence punishable by imprisonment
search the vehicle for an offender or for evidence of an offence in respect of which the vehicle was stopped
search premises or a vehicle for controlled drugs

What happens if you refuse to give consent to a search of your vehicle or premises ? Are you then arrested ?


Hmm, the word consent in your post confuses me. A search warrant or statutory authority removes the entitlement of consent from the search. If you interfere with said search you will be arrested for obstruction. A consented search is one where the only authority is the one you have given to the Police, so they cannot arrest you for refusing a consented search. 

The can be sneaky about it too, the common one is the "burglary" line. (suspicion of theft is a valid reason for a search) so they ask you "Oh we have had some burglaries in the area, and we were wondering if we could have a look in your vehicle" which sounds reasonable EXCEPT; if there was valid suspicion of theft, they dont need consent, and if you answer "okay", bang, you have consented to a search.  
Every citizen has the right of protection from illegal search and seizure, and I personally wouldn't give that up for anything.  

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  Reply # 312421 29-Mar-2010 15:16
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MikeyPI:
SepticSceptic:
patznz: Basically you have to tell the police your details, they cannot search you or your property without your consent (or under the misuse of drug acts ect and then they have to tell you). It is always best never to say anything more to police, as they will never help you out. If you do get arrested, dont fight with police, this is not the time to plead your innocence they dont care, save it for court.


If the Police have a search warrant, or specific statutory authority... 

They must, first, tell you what this specific authority is - there is a range of search powers. Common cases include specific powers to:
stop a vehicle if someone in it is subject to an arrest warrant or has committed an offence punishable by imprisonment
search the vehicle for an offender or for evidence of an offence in respect of which the vehicle was stopped
search premises or a vehicle for controlled drugs

What happens if you refuse to give consent to a search of your vehicle or premises ? Are you then arrested ?



Hmm, the word consent in your post confuses me. A search warrant or statutory authority removes the entitlement of consent from the search. If you interfere with said search you will be arrested for obstruction. A consented search is one where the only authority is the one you have given to the Police, so they cannot arrest you for refusing a consented search.  


This is the bit that bugs me, I have an issue with authority rooting thru my private possessions on such a specious bit of law. I can understand why this was introduced, but I can envisage that a bit of lip in the wrong place, or a harassed occifer, can lead to a somewhat unwelcome delay. I suppose once I am out of the car, locking the car and swallowing the key would lead to an obstruction charge. In more ways than one :-)

 




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  Reply # 312430 29-Mar-2010 15:33
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The Police dont need a reason anymore to breath test you, only that you are on the road and that you are driving (or they suspect you were driving) a vehicle.  They can also test everyone in the vehicle if the driver is unable to be identified.  If you refuse to be tested then they just go to the next step in the process and require you to accompany them to the station for a breath/blood test, if you refuse to accompany them you will be arrested.

 

 

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  Reply # 312435 29-Mar-2010 15:39
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scuwp: The Police dont need a reason anymore to breath test you, only that you are on the road and that you are driving (or they suspect you were driving) a vehicle.  They can also test everyone in the vehicle if the driver is unable to be identified.  If you refuse to be tested then they just go to the next step in the process and require you to accompany them to the station for a breath/blood test, if you refuse to accompany them you will be arrested.




I was referring more to the warrantless search of either your car or your house ...




My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government


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  Reply # 312441 29-Mar-2010 15:46
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If a search is being conducted pursuant to a warrant or statutory power of search, and you refuse to allow that search to take place, you can be arrested for obstruction.

If you refuse to be searched by consent, or consent and then withdraw said consent, you are within your rights to do so and nothing can result from that unless something illegal has been located already.

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  Reply # 312447 29-Mar-2010 15:53
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SepticSceptic:
scuwp: The Police dont need a reason anymore to breath test you, only that you are on the road and that you are driving (or they suspect you were driving) a vehicle.  They can also test everyone in the vehicle if the driver is unable to be identified.  If you refuse to be tested then they just go to the next step in the process and require you to accompany them to the station for a breath/blood test, if you refuse to accompany them you will be arrested.




I was referring more to the warrantless search of either your car or your house ...


Also a word of caution, if you suspect an illegal search is taking place, ie wrong address or name, or just pull you over and search you, inform the senior police officer present that you believe that the search is illegal, but DO NOT impede the officers. Anything found during an illegal search is inadmissible, but the judge wont have any sympathy if you obstruct a policeman doing his job. Sit there, smile, and call a lawyer at your first opportunity.
  

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  Reply # 312449 29-Mar-2010 15:56
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MikeyPI:Anything found during an illegal search is inadmissible, 


Not necessarily. At court the Shaheed principle is applied, which is essentially a balancing test based on the severity of the breach versus the seriousness of the charge/evidence. 

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  Reply # 312456 29-Mar-2010 16:03
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corksta:
MikeyPI:Anything found during an illegal search is inadmissible, 


Not necessarily. At court the Shaheed principle is applied, which is essentially a balancing test based on the severity of the breach versus the seriousness of the charge/evidence. 


Yes but illegal search and seizure is considered a serious breach of authority.  But if your hiding dead bodies under the floor then you may have a problem.. 

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  Reply # 312464 29-Mar-2010 16:28
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I think on the whole we have a pretty decent police force here in NZ and compared to other places in the world things are generaly done in a fairly relaxed and friendly manner.

You always see these type of threads on forum boards no matter what the site is about. You also see the odd poster jumping up and down about this or that and the police and I often wonder if they have other issues going on besides if they have to talk to the police or not.

My own personsal views on this are obviously biased (see avatar) but I think the UK runs a better system where you have the right to silence but if you don't provide a reasonable explanation at the time you are spoken to if you later decide to tell your side of the story in court it is looked upon with some doubt.

A good example of the right to silence right failing is the Kahui twins case. I think even the law commission has said that the right to silence system is flawed.

As far as illegal searches go and asking to look in backpacks etc what rights you have or don't have has been covered fairly well by other posters but if it was me in that situation and there had been a heap of cars broken into in my area I would be glad that the police are taking an interest and actively targeting people carrying backpacks etc. And ask yourself why they would do that? Because it works, end of story. I can think of plenty of occasions when I have found stolen items or drugs doing just this.

I think if some went and lived in other parts of the world where getting stopped in a car means been dealt with at gunpoint they would be happy to come back and live in NZ and deal with the cops we have.


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  Reply # 312469 29-Mar-2010 16:43
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No one said its bad, just what rights we have. By enforcing these rights and keeping the force honest, ensures we dont end up like foreign countries...

For me as well its a question of competence as well. If your method of solving thefts is to detain EVERYONE, and search them all, until you get lucky, reeks of an inability to complete a thorough investigation. Nor do I think stolen goods or drugs, is a good enough reason to infringe on those rights. As posters on the DIA filter have said, its a slippery slope.

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  Reply # 312483 29-Mar-2010 16:56
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boby55: 
But I agree - If you are obeying the law and not doing anything wrong, you have no need to worry about the police


And there are no crooked cops, right? 

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  Reply # 312495 29-Mar-2010 17:14
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timestyles:
boby55: 
But I agree - If you are obeying the law and not doing anything wrong, you have no need to worry about the police


And there are no crooked cops, right? 


No one is saying the police force are all perfect but look at it this way.

If you took 1000 people from your own profession and compared them to 1000 police officers for being "crooked" as you put it I think the police would come out on top 99.9% of the time, and this is the way is should be. Police reailse more is expected from them because of the authority they are given.

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