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  Reply # 318412 14-Apr-2010 16:16
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GBristow:
NZtechfreak: I don't agree that requiring a prescription is overkill given the advent of P.


Let's take it a step further. Why not ban ammonia-based cleaners because anhydrous ammonia can be used to produce methamphetamine? While we're at it, I'm sure those crazy P-dealers use cars to drive around and pick up supplies. If we ban cars, or require a proof of the reason for travel on each trip, we'll surely stamp out P once and for all!

The purpose of laws is to balance rights of the populous against measures that protect it. How many batches of P will be prevented vs how many people inconvenienced by the inability to easily access pseudo-ephedrine? I don't think the trade-off is worth it.


+1

-1 to the legalise drugs bit though.




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  Reply # 318448 14-Apr-2010 17:27
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NZtechfreak: I don't agree that requiring a prescription is overkill given the advent of P.


 

Ignorance is bliss!!  As already stated this is a radical step that ultimately has negative effects on the primary health care system - which as we are all well aware is struggling along!!  The cost of the attempted move will be detrimental for the sake of a few votes (like above).

Oh and talking of legalisation - Adderall is the legal equivalent of P, an amphetamine available via prescription for weight loss!!

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  Reply # 318451 14-Apr-2010 17:33
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Ragnor: At the risk of being labelled some kind of tree hugging hippy naturalist....


You regard that as a bad thing?!?




"There is no way to Peace -Peace is the Way" (A. J. Muste)

 


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  Reply # 318482 14-Apr-2010 18:39
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Its not hard to get a prescription for pseudoephedrine, so I don't really know what the access issue is here, and certainly I think the inconvenience of getting pseudoephedrine now in terms of needing a prescription IS a big enough balance for the harms of P.

Some pharmacies have elected to stop supplying it, but thats their own business and not related to the requirement for a prescription, and thats the real difficulty in getting psuedoephedrine - thats what I think is not OK about the difficulty in getting pseudoephedrine.

...and how has this negatively impacted primary care and made it struggle?

Is adderall available in NZ? A search of medsafe and MIMS suggests no, and its not one I've come across in practice.




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  Reply # 318491 14-Apr-2010 19:15
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It's not just the inconvenience of getting a prescription. The cost has gone up by the $50-60 for a doctors consult.

I love 30 second doctors visits that cost $2 per second :P

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  Reply # 318498 14-Apr-2010 19:30
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GBristow:
The purpose of laws is to balance rights of the populous against measures that protect it. How many batches of P will be prevented vs how many people inconvenienced by the inability to easily access pseudo-ephedrine? I don't think the trade-off is worth it. In fact, I think P should be legalised, taxed and controlled. The supply process will be removed from the hands of gangs, so quality would never be an issue. The enormous tax windfall would be used for education, prevention, rehab, and medical care. Most importantly, someone would be required to get a prescription first, meaning their doctor could monitor their health and progress, and limit their intake. We're applying a band-aid to a large, but easily fixed problem.


Thank the gods you aren't in charge of our country.  Your idea of legalising P would quintuple the load on the public health system, quadruple the load on our justice system, and frankly would benefit noone except the funeral industry.




I finally have fibre!  Had to leave the country to get it though.


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  Reply # 318500 14-Apr-2010 19:41
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NZtechfreak: Its not hard to get a prescription for pseudoephedrine, so I don't really know what the access issue is here, and certainly I think the inconvenience of getting pseudoephedrine now in terms of needing a prescription IS a big enough balance for the harms of P.

Some pharmacies have elected to stop supplying it, but thats their own business and not related to the requirement for a prescription, and thats the real difficulty in getting psuedoephedrine - thats what I think is not OK about the difficulty in getting pseudoephedrine.

...and how has this negatively impacted primary care and made it struggle?


Is adderall available in NZ? A search of medsafe and MIMS suggests no, and its not one I've come across in practice.


 

I cannot remember the brand name of Adderall in NZ but had never heard of it before seeing it in a patient I treated a couple weeks back.  I was told by the ED Doc it was the equivalent of a smaller dosage of amphetamine!  I believe it was Duromine (will have to confirm next week at work.

I think you are confused as pseudoephedrine is NOT prescription only yet.  It is still available over the counter ie. at the discretion of a registered pharmacist, hence how the OP was able to purchase it WITHOUT a prescription.










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  Reply # 318502 14-Apr-2010 19:51
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I checked MIMS, there is no adderall available in NZ according to that (unless its use for weight loss is an off label indication, I searched by indication "weight loss" so its possible there is another use for it in NZ that my search would have failed to detect). I wonder where the patient sourced it, and for what indication?

If you're in an area where its $50-60 for a doctors appointment, and your doctor still charges you that for a 2s consult then I do commeriserate!




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  Reply # 318543 14-Apr-2010 21:53
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GBristow: The supply process will be removed from the hands of gangs, so quality would never be an issue.


All you'd be doing is replacing the supply chain. The health and social problems would persist.

To isolate gangs networks, we'd be better off regulating the gateway drugs - particularly those drugs that don't produce violent criminals.



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  Reply # 318622 15-Apr-2010 08:50
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Kyanar:
GBristow:
The purpose of laws is to balance rights of the populous against measures that protect it. How many batches of P will be prevented vs how many people inconvenienced by the inability to easily access pseudo-ephedrine? I don't think the trade-off is worth it. In fact, I think P should be legalised, taxed and controlled. The supply process will be removed from the hands of gangs, so quality would never be an issue. The enormous tax windfall would be used for education, prevention, rehab, and medical care. Most importantly, someone would be required to get a prescription first, meaning their doctor could monitor their health and progress, and limit their intake. We're applying a band-aid to a large, but easily fixed problem.


Thank the gods you aren't in charge of our country.  Your idea of legalising P would quintuple the load on the public health system, quadruple the load on our justice system, and frankly would benefit noone except the funeral industry.


Really, I heard it would decrease health costs by 70%, and reduce the load on the justice system by half.

See, it's fun to make up statistics!

...

And back to the topic at hand... does anyone actually know _when_ pseudoephedrine will become prescription only?


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  Reply # 318656 15-Apr-2010 09:50
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Maybe the gangs could start supplying Contact NT to the people with running noses. Doctors appointment $50-$60 + $20 for the medicine. I'm sure they could do a roaring trade at $30 - $40 a packet...

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  Reply # 318669 15-Apr-2010 10:10
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dolsen: Maybe the gangs could start supplying Contact NT to the people with running noses. Doctors appointment $50-$60 + $20 for the medicine. I'm sure they could do a roaring trade at $30 - $40 a packet...



That's probably not as silly as it sounds...

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  Reply # 318673 15-Apr-2010 10:17
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I thought they use methlamine for making p now, it's on breaking bad so it must be true :)

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  Reply # 318831 15-Apr-2010 14:48
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Easier for me to get some P than the hard to get cold pills now.

No idea if you can turn it back into cold pills, but when feeling like crap and having work to do the hassle of calling up, waiting a day for a GP appointment, going there, getting a script, going to 3 pharmacys till finding one that will supply and getting the meds is NOT FUN.

The other stuff sort of works for a minor cold like my last one. it seemed to resolve the massive nasel deluge down to something manageable but did nothing to the pounding sinus issues. Damn stuff had paracetomol in it so that makes mixing with another painkiller that works risky (one pharmacy said no, one said yes)

And if I wanted to get some P - no change as far as I know on that front...




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  Reply # 318852 15-Apr-2010 15:07
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Should be fine mixing with other painkillers, paracetamol and paracetamol containing mixtures obviously are out (codalgin, previously paradex, Lemsip etc). Thats probably what they were referring to.




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