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270 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 474056 25-May-2011 17:13
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ajw:
MikeSkyrme:
ajw: The brain drain to Aussie and other countries continues unabated.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/australia/4947710/Mass-exodus-to-Aussie-continues


Looking at the article, it would appear that most, if not all of those leaving for Australia would not benefit from a minimum wage increase.


But have already figured out where the grass is greener.


Is there any data showing how many actually stay there?

In my opinion, unless you are a 'skilled' worker, the grass is not going to be greener at all. Australia is an expensive place to live as well.




Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

ajw

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  Reply # 474057 25-May-2011 17:16
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BS

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  Reply # 474069 25-May-2011 17:32
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How about industry based minimum wages, it would be fine to pay someone on the end of a shovel an adults wage,  but why would a firm start an apprentice at $15 an hour when it costs to train them, if they want to interfere in the wage structure why don't they specify minimum wages for skilled workers to put them on a pare with the competition overseas, they are the ones leaving, and who can blame them.


BS

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Master Geek


  Reply # 474197 25-May-2011 22:54
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Have you noticed how top executives and politicians justify there salaries with the argument of,  we have to pay them the same pay scale as overseas or we will loose them", but don't apply the same argument when it comes to the workers.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 474200 25-May-2011 23:03
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BS: Have you noticed how top executives and politicians justify there salaries with the argument of,  we have to pay them the same pay scale as overseas or we will loose them", but don't apply the same argument when it comes to the workers.


I think you answered your own query with the reference to "top executives and politicians".

They are harder to replace (well, the executives are anyway) and as such can demand better T's and C's.




Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

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  Reply # 474210 26-May-2011 02:15
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BS: How about industry based minimum wages, 


I believe they have this in Australia, and it's a mess from what I have heard.  Like GST, Australians seem to like to complicate our simple ideas. K.I.S.S !

A minimum wage is important, because without it, employees WILL get screwed over, more than that, it's the MOST vulnerable ones, the ones who MOST need a wage, that will get screwed over.  If employers all looked after their staff and invested in their staff and paid good and equitable wages to their staff so as to fairly share the profits that the staff produce, then sure we wouldn't need the minimum wage, but that's just not the case.  If you give many employers an inch, they will take a mile.

The minimum wage goes far far beyond just "a days pay for a days work", it's (sadly) a pretty fundamental underpinning of the wellbeing of large swathes of society.

Is $13 an hour really a livable minimum wage.  If you work full time on $13 an hour, can you realistically live on that?  Pretty damn tight I'd say, and as a result people wind up working longer hours, taking 2 or more jobs.  This likely costs the country more in he long run; for starters - tired over-worked people clearly are going to have significantly higher health care costs, they get sick easier, and because they are underpaid they can't afford to take time off, this increases sickness ratios of everybody.  Parents spend less time with kids, education suffers, family dynamics suffer. 

Look at the US, where you have some industrys (eg wait staff) living on tips.  Do people really want to go down that path here?

NO! I say, New Zealand is better than that.  Everybody who works in New Zealand should be guaranteed a wage which is at a bare minimum enough to reasonably afford to live independently in the general area in which you are employed.  If that is determined to be $15 an hour, then so be it.  Employers will just have to get with the program there are plenty of ways to find an extra few dollars, if they appreciate their staff they should already be paying more than minimum anyway!




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James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 474211 26-May-2011 04:36
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I took on a job that was labour work $12.75 an hour, very hard work yet I enjoyed it immensely In this job the boss refused to employ young people because they never last long or are prone to injuries mostly always they would quit after a couple of weeks or get fired because they just couldn't handle it. If you couldn't keep up you were considered weak and to harden up. It wasn't a job for a 17yr old.

The youngest worker out of 7 staff was 30yrs old the oldest was 66. What got to me is we all should of been on at least $18-20 an hr $12.75 just didn't give me a reason to stay on. It was a private own company so the boss sat with minimum wage. He is a millionaire he could easily afford it, I suppose that's how he became a millionaire.

I'll never forget the guys they were all slightly crazy, (not real names)not afraid of anyone. One a Scotsman in his mid 60's every 2nd word included the F word he hated everyone & everything but man he could tell really good yarns that had you in fits of laughter and for a mid 60s old fella he worked very hard. Then their was Englishman Dave, Dave was an alcoholic who hated politicians and talked about different brands of beer and why his homeland England is getting done over by the Muslims. lol. And Jack the Aussie who was the nerdy type looked a complete nerd but was strong as an ox, then Joe the Maori who ranted on about rugby and sang all day he could eat like a horse the only one out of all of us who didn't smoke. Man that guy could eat. And our manager im sure suffered from depression or he was just on a 24/7 downer trip.

They were all slightly madmen but loyal and hard workers. I was only there for about 14months before I left, those guys have been there for 15yrs or more working for minimum wage.




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  Reply # 474223 26-May-2011 07:07
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sleemanj:
BS: How about industry based minimum wages, 


I believe they have this in Australia, and it's a mess from what I have heard.  Like GST, Australians seem to like to complicate our simple ideas. K.I.S.S !

A minimum wage is important, because without it, employees WILL get screwed over, more than that, it's the MOST vulnerable ones, the ones who MOST need a wage, that will get screwed over.  If employers all looked after their staff and invested in their staff and paid good and equitable wages to their staff so as to fairly share the profits that the staff produce, then sure we wouldn't need the minimum wage, but that's just not the case.  If you give many employers an inch, they will take a mile.

The minimum wage goes far far beyond just "a days pay for a days work", it's (sadly) a pretty fundamental underpinning of the wellbeing of large swathes of society.

Is $13 an hour really a livable minimum wage.  If you work full time on $13 an hour, can you realistically live on that?  Pretty damn tight I'd say, and as a result people wind up working longer hours, taking 2 or more jobs.  This likely costs the country more in he long run; for starters - tired over-worked people clearly are going to have significantly higher health care costs, they get sick easier, and because they are underpaid they can't afford to take time off, this increases sickness ratios of everybody.  Parents spend less time with kids, education suffers, family dynamics suffer. 

Look at the US, where you have some industrys (eg wait staff) living on tips.  Do people really want to go down that path here?

NO! I say, New Zealand is better than that.  Everybody who works in New Zealand should be guaranteed a wage which is at a bare minimum enough to reasonably afford to live independently in the general area in which you are employed.  If that is determined to be $15 an hour, then so be it.  Employers will just have to get with the program there are plenty of ways to find an extra few dollars, if they appreciate their staff they should already be paying more than minimum anyway!


the award system works well, there is ways to buck the system but for the most part it is a good system.

Is $13 livable? yes but like you say it is tight, isn't that an incentive to work harder to get out of the minimum wage?

What happens when it goes to $15 an hour?

The prices go up, the supermarkets, mcd's etc need to make up the extra money somewhere. 

So $15 an hour is worth less than $13 an hour was, everything inflates by that amount.

all Labour are doing is appealing their demographic to get votes, they have no care about running the country efficiently.

Minimum wage is important there needs to be one, and it does need to keep up with inflation, all wages do, but it cant have huge leaps like Labour like to do it is counter productive for the whole country.

 




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  Reply # 474229 26-May-2011 07:38
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sleemanj:
BS: How about industry based minimum wages, 


I believe they have this in Australia, and it's a mess from what I have heard.  Like GST, Australians seem to like to complicate our simple ideas. K.I.S.S !

A minimum wage is important, because without it, employees WILL get screwed over, more than that, it's the MOST vulnerable ones, the ones who MOST need a wage, that will get screwed over.  If employers all looked after their staff and invested in their staff and paid good and equitable wages to their staff so as to fairly share the profits that the staff produce, then sure we wouldn't need the minimum wage, but that's just not the case.  If you give many employers an inch, they will take a mile.

The minimum wage goes far far beyond just "a days pay for a days work", it's (sadly) a pretty fundamental underpinning of the wellbeing of large swathes of society.

Is $13 an hour really a livable minimum wage.  If you work full time on $13 an hour, can you realistically live on that?  Pretty damn tight I'd say, and as a result people wind up working longer hours, taking 2 or more jobs.  This likely costs the country more in he long run; for starters - tired over-worked people clearly are going to have significantly higher health care costs, they get sick easier, and because they are underpaid they can't afford to take time off, this increases sickness ratios of everybody.  Parents spend less time with kids, education suffers, family dynamics suffer. 

Look at the US, where you have some industrys (eg wait staff) living on tips.  Do people really want to go down that path here?


NO! I say, New Zealand is better than that.  Everybody who works in New Zealand should be guaranteed a wage which is at a bare minimum enough to reasonably afford to live independently in the general area in which you are employed.  If that is determined to be $15 an hour, then so be it.  Employers will just have to get with the program there are plenty of ways to find an extra few dollars, if they appreciate their staff they should already be paying more than minimum anyway!


 

I disagree that the minimum wage is too low to live on.  You have to live within your means, and I think that Generation Y are a generation of "instant gratification please".  In other words "that iPhone looks nice, I cant afford it but mah, I will buy it on a $90 contract a month, even though my normal spend is $20"

There is no disagreement that it isnt easy living on $13.00 an hour, however not every job in fact not even close to every job is minimum wage.  Having one that is realistic slows inflation and promotes growth in tougher times like the rescission we have just had. 

 

 

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 474256 26-May-2011 09:01
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It's just inflation. I'm on the equivalent of $20 an hour. And I've been with the same company 5 years. All it does make the new people start on higher amount, all those just above this receive nothing extra. But I'll just keep saving... It's all I can do!

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  Reply # 474267 26-May-2011 09:46
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mudguard: It's just inflation. I'm on the equivalent of $20 an hour. And I've been with the same company 5 years. All it does make the new people start on higher amount, all those just above this receive nothing extra. But I'll just keep saving... It's all I can do!


my point exactly. Our bosses must both suck! 




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  Reply # 474279 26-May-2011 10:23
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I disagree that the minimum wage is tight to live on.Im a student, and while I do work hard to keep my costs down, I also have plenty to spend on extras like entertainment and geeky toys, and this is done for hundreds less than what I would receive after tax for working a 40 hour week at minimum wage.
While some of my income during the term is borrowed, the point is that the outgoings to support a comfortable lifestyle cost much less than the net income from a standard minimum wage job.

If you have kids, then its a different story, but the minim um wage is more than enough to live on comfortably if you are young and childless, in fact there is plenty of scope for savings as well.
Minimum wage earners supporting kids is a more structural issue, raising the minimum wage wont really fix that.

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  Reply # 474305 26-May-2011 11:16
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I'm in the boat with all the others who say that if you want a higher wage, work harder and earn it rather than waiting/voting for a government who will just raise it for you.

If you think you deserve a higher pay, show that you deserve it to your employer! Don't just wait for your boss to come to you and say "hey, you are doing a good job, here is a pay rise" in reality not many bosses will do this. They are much like you in a way, trying to make money in this world. And you, the employee, is a cost. So upping your pay is not going to be a priority.

(some bosses are not like this, but some are)

When I have asked for a pay rise in the past, I have noted down times when I have added real value to the company. Like the time when I put my hand up to drive to Taupo to fix an urgent issue at 4.45pm on a Friday afternoon when no one else wanted to.

If you can show you add value to the company to your boss then it will make it easier for you to ask for a pay rise.

And one other thing that really gets me fired up is this whole "Where are all the jobs that John Key promised?" Wake up people!! What happened after National came into power? Was it a world wide recession? Do you think that it might have had an effect on the number of jobs??

BS

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Master Geek


  Reply # 474326 26-May-2011 11:47
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Instead of industry based I should have said skill based, all I can relate to is my own experience when I was an indentured apprentice we started at 15yrs on 10% of the engineers wages. but I could have gone into a factory as a laborer at 50% (probable equivalent to $15 hr) of an engineers wage but with no future prospects, mind you we all lived at home in those days so any money we got was just pocket money, when you were older and got your own home one mans wages was enough to keep a family, how things have changed. but no TV, no car, no phone, no internet, saved up all year for a holiday at the seaside.






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