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1351 posts

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  Reply # 474428 26-May-2011 14:21
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dickytim:
hellonearthisman: $15 would help close the wage gap with Australia, something that National said it would do, but there hopes and dreams have failed them, maybe they should have actually gone out there and done something to make it happen.

The wage raise doesn't see much compared to the 33% Kiwisaver business tax that National has put on businesses.


No it simply won't, how would it, it means the lowest paid workers get more while others get less.

I don't expect rational argument from people who believe in a welfare state like labour do. 


If you don't expect a rational argument and don't want to debate why are you even here?  

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  Reply # 474430 26-May-2011 14:27
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hellonearthisman:
dickytim:
hellonearthisman: $15 would help close the wage gap with Australia, something that National said it would do, but there hopes and dreams have failed them, maybe they should have actually gone out there and done something to make it happen.

The wage raise doesn't see much compared to the 33% Kiwisaver business tax that National has put on businesses.


No it simply won't, how would it, it means the lowest paid workers get more while others get less.

I don't expect rational argument from people who believe in a welfare state like labour do.?

Who's getting less, no one is getting a wage cut?


And typical for a National to attack the person and not the policy.

This proposed wage rise is not a government handout, it's the Government stating what is fair.


Fine legislate that middle of the road, hard workers get a 15% pay increase as well, then it is fair.

The wage rise is the same as student loans were, electioneering with no thought for the consiquences.

You're right about it not being a government hand out it is much more devious and back handed than that, it looks like a hand out from labour but they don't have to foot the bill, it is most devious. 




I know a little more than nothing but not much...

 
 
 
 


ajw

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  Reply # 474432 26-May-2011 14:33
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dickytim:
hellonearthisman:
dickytim:
hellonearthisman: $15 would help close the wage gap with Australia, something that National said it would do, but there hopes and dreams have failed them, maybe they should have actually gone out there and done something to make it happen.

The wage raise doesn't see much compared to the 33% Kiwisaver business tax that National has put on businesses.


No it simply won't, how would it, it means the lowest paid workers get more while others get less.

I don't expect rational argument from people who believe in a welfare state like labour do.?

Who's getting less, no one is getting a wage cut?


And typical for a National to attack the person and not the policy.

This proposed wage rise is not a government handout, it's the Government stating what is fair.


Fine legislate that middle of the road, hard workers get a 15% pay increase as well, then it is fair.

The wage rise is the same as student loans were, electioneering with no thought for the consiquences.

You're right about it not being a government hand out it is much more devious and back handed than that, it looks like a hand out from labour but they don't have to foot the bill, it is most devious. 


All we have got with Labour and National is tweedle de and tweedle dum they are both full of crap so why argue about them.

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  Reply # 474443 26-May-2011 14:55
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Well who's getting less? Well technically some one on $15 an hour at say Bob's Emporium gets a new work colleague who has no experience and starts after the minimum wage is raised.
In 99% of cases the existing employee won't have his or her wage lifted as well.

ajw

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  Reply # 474485 26-May-2011 16:59
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Desperate seek part-time jobs


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10727283

BS

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  Reply # 474490 26-May-2011 17:31
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langers1972:
hellonearthisman: $15 would help close the wage gap with Australia, something that National said it would do, but there hopes and dreams have failed them, maybe they should have actually gone out there and done something to make it happen.

The wage raise doesn't see much compared to the 33% Kiwisaver business tax that National has put on businesses.


This idea that we'll ever be on parity with Australia is bananas.

Australia is known as 'the lucky country' and that, in the form of it's mineral/mining industry, is exactly what it is and why it's such a powerhouse economically.

The only thing NZ does to the same extent commodity wise is milk a lot of cows and raise a lot of sheep and that ain't going to bring the massive wealth that Oz can with it's natural resources.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is, quite frankly, delusional 


We have something that Australia would like and that's water to produce cheap energy, I'm thinking of Manapouri, but what do we do with it, bring in bauxite, turn it into aluminium and ship it of to Japan, it seems such a waste, why haven't we got a PV manufacturing industry in Dunedin and Invercargill I think it would employ rather more than the 800 now employed at Tiwai Point aluminium smelter. but unfortunately we seem to have this idea we are just a primary producer.

Maybe a higher minimum wage would stimulate industry to change it's out look and go for innovation over brute force, it's the chicken and the egg,

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  Reply # 474491 26-May-2011 17:32
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Employment is generally regarded as an Oligopsony , note this is a opposite of Oligopoly

Oligopsony: few buyers (employers), lots of sellers (employees)
Oligopoly: few sellers, lots of buyers

You need a minimum wage as this prevents employers using their market power to push down the price of labour where we are all working in sweatshops because there are no other jobs.

However if the minimum wage is too high, employers simply don't hire more staff as hiring another staff member is more expensive than the gain from what the worker is doing.

It's definitely a balancing act setting the minimum wage at the right level, but $15 in a middle of a tough recession is probably a crazy idea.

Minimum wage already was increased in 2010, if you look at the history is has risen periodically and is line with other countries around the world.

What the government needs to focus on is providing the right environment for business growth so there are more total jobs available. Wages won't rise that much while there are so many more people looking for jobs then their are jobs.

Twiddling with the minimum wage is treating a symptom not the cause of the problem.





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  Reply # 474660 27-May-2011 08:17
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Ragnor: Employment is generally regarded as an Oligopsony , note this is a opposite of Oligopoly

Oligopsony: few buyers (employers), lots of sellers (employees)
Oligopoly: few sellers, lots of buyers

You need a minimum wage as this prevents employers using their market power to push down the price of labour where we are all working in sweatshops because there are no other jobs.

However if the minimum wage is too high, employers simply don't hire more staff as hiring another staff member is more expensive than the gain from what the worker is doing.

It's definitely a balancing act setting the minimum wage at the right level, but $15 in a middle of a tough recession is probably a crazy idea.

Minimum wage already was increased in 2010, if you look at the history is has risen periodically and is line with other countries around the world.

What the government needs to focus on is providing the right environment for business growth so there are more total jobs available. Wages won't rise that much while there are so many more people looking for jobs then their are jobs.

Twiddling with the minimum wage is treating a symptom not the cause of the problem.






It was mad to increase GST considering the tough recession we are in.

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  Reply # 474858 27-May-2011 16:02
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Depends on your situation, for me I'm quite a bit better off with lower income tax and higher GST and I don't buy that much stuff.

ajw

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  Reply # 474886 27-May-2011 17:38
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Ragnor: Depends on your situation, for me I'm quite a bit better off with lower income tax and higher GST and I don't buy that much stuff.


In my situation I am worse off. The increase in the cost of living has not been offset by the income tax cut. My consumption remaining the same after the increase in GST.

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  Reply # 475406 29-May-2011 12:57
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i drive 48 kms to work and 48 kms home agian, on a salery of $570/w that works out to be $14.25/hr

however saturday mornings 2 a month my hourly rate goes down to $13.03

people say why not mpve closer to work, my reply is this. i pay $120/w for board everything provided.
renting a flat would cost 3 times that as i dont like living with others.

$15/hr rasie will be a big help for those in my position that has to commute back and forwards

5 days @ 47.5 hours @ $14.25/hr
6 days @ 52 hours @ $13.03/hr

these figures are before tax so if i worked for all of 2 mins more on a 52 hour week i would then be below minimum wage.

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  Reply # 476657 1-Jun-2011 12:31
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Perhaps some of the members would benefit (no pun intended) from reading this:

http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2011/03/choosing-worse-option.html#links

for me it's simple. pay people more, or spend more on hospitals, police and prisons in the long run.

Some people here complain "if the minimum wage goes up, i don't get an increase".
you should complain to your employer, but join the union first, so you have someone to stand up for you when you get 'made redundant'



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  Reply # 476736 1-Jun-2011 16:42
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Ragnor:
You need a minimum wage as this prevents employers using their market power to push down the price of labour where we are all working in sweatshops because there are no other jobs.

However if the minimum wage is too high, employers simply don't hire more staff as hiring another staff member is more expensive than the gain from what the worker is doing.


as per the tv news the other night, some companies (manufacturers) are looking to lay of dozens of staff because they cannot sell their products any more.  The reason they cant sell their products is because the NZ $ has risen, their costs have not dropped and they just cant compete on the global market.

in order to grow as a country, we need more skilled workers creating more exportable products/services which *can* compete globally.  Ones that are not so badly affected by the exchange rate. We also need more employers in the industries that can create these products/services.  Raising the minimum wage is not going to contribute to this goal in any way - in fact it quite possibly means less people will be motivated to 'skill up' and will instead continue to coast on the absolute minimum of effort.  Raising taxes on employers and bumping up the costs of unskilled labour will also work against this goal.





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ajw

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  Reply # 476743 1-Jun-2011 16:53
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And a lot of skilled workers are heading offshore for better wages and conditions.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/australia/4947710/Mass-exodus-to-Aussie-continues

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  Reply # 476909 2-Jun-2011 07:32
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Regs:
Ragnor:
You need a minimum wage as this prevents employers using their market power to push down the price of labour where we are all working in sweatshops because there are no other jobs.

However if the minimum wage is too high, employers simply don't hire more staff as hiring another staff member is more expensive than the gain from what the worker is doing.


as per the tv news the other night, some companies (manufacturers) are looking to lay of dozens of staff because they cannot sell their products any more.  The reason they cant sell their products is because the NZ $ has risen, their costs have not dropped and they just cant compete on the global market.

in order to grow as a country, we need more skilled workers creating more exportable products/services which *can* compete globally.  Ones that are not so badly affected by the exchange rate. We also need more employers in the industries that can create these products/services.  Raising the minimum wage is not going to contribute to this goal in any way - in fact it quite possibly means less people will be motivated to 'skill up' and will instead continue to coast on the absolute minimum of effort.  Raising taxes on employers and bumping up the costs of unskilled labour will also work against this goal.



Well said.

You do need a min wage, without question, but raising it by 15% is not wise. 




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