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  Reply # 486951 28-Jun-2011 15:30
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Skolink:
timmmay: Heat Recovery Ventilation systems can stay on at night, because instead of just running a fan that pushes air out the cracks in your house it sucks clean air in from outside, heats it from the stale moist air it takes from the house, and so you get fresh, pre-warmed air. It's not perfect, there's some waste, but it's better than the alternative.

Just to clarify, Heat Recovery Ventillation should not be confused with the 'HRV' system which Marc Ellis markets, they are two different things. The Marc Ellis type system is what timmmay has installed, with no heat exchanger.


Correct. Heat Recovery Ventilation is a technique of ventilation that reuses existing heat, not a company. I had HRV the company over once to tell me about their products, and they were snake oil salesmen who either lied or exaggerated, and when I started asking tough questions just couldn't answer them.

The system I have in is from a different manufacturer, it was there when I bought the house. It's a little two outlet system, outputting into my hallway and into my kitchen. It's quite effective of bringing a little heat into the house on sunny days, and even on cloudy days the ceiling cavity is slightly warmer and drier than the house, so overall i'm pleased I have it.

If I were putting one in i'd get a much better heat recovery system, but total cost would be about $5K and cutting the holes in each room could reduce the effectiveness of the insulation further.




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  Reply # 486959 28-Jun-2011 15:41
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I need one because its quite damp under the house because of there being SFA drainage around here, and it comes up into the house and makes things mouldy, the bathroom never drys out between showers despite leaving the fan on etc.

When I had the dehumidifier running and working, it was all fine. Its too cold now to open the house up to air out, and even doing that achieves nothing to get rid of moisture since the cold outside air is already prettymuch at saturation so unless I go and heat it up at massive $$ only to blow it back outside it will never dry surfaces etc out.




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  Reply # 486960 28-Jun-2011 15:42
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timmmay: It's quite effective of bringing a little heat into the house on sunny days


Great, just what you want. Wink

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  Reply # 486962 28-Jun-2011 15:45
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richms: I need one because its quite damp under the house because of there being SFA drainage around here, and it comes up into the house and makes things mouldy, the bathroom never drys out between showers despite leaving the fan on etc.

When I had the dehumidifier running and working, it was all fine. Its too cold now to open the house up to air out, and even doing that achieves nothing to get rid of moisture since the cold outside air is already prettymuch at saturation so unless I go and heat it up at massive $$ only to blow it back outside it will never dry surfaces etc out.


I had the same issues in our house, ground under it was soaked during the winter.

Spent about $150 on a big roll of black polythene plastic and covered the whole ground under the house (stapled it to the sides.  It is so much drier and warmer under there now!  Aparently it can take 2 years to dry a house out after being damp (not sure who said that though)

Is it possible in your situation to fix the cause rather than treat the symptoms? I would recommend spending money fixing the cause if you can.

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  Reply # 486965 28-Jun-2011 15:51
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jaymz: I had the same issues in our house, ground under it was soaked during the winter.

Spent about $150 on a big roll of black polythene plastic and covered the whole ground under the house (stapled it to the sides.  It is so much drier and warmer under there now!  Aparently it can take 2 years to dry a house out after being damp (not sure who said that though)

Is it possible in your situation to fix the cause rather than treat the symptoms? I would recommend spending money fixing the cause if you can.


I totally agree with this, fix the problem not the symptoms. I got some kind of a grant to get this subsidised, due to asthma. The ground sheet made a huge difference to the dampness and smell in the house. They put in insulation at the same time and it definitely helped a LOT. The plastic really does have to be taped down. Unfortunately cats pee under my house now, as it's easy to get under there.

I spent about $6K having labourers dig out the dirt under my house so we could fit insulation and plastic under more of it. It's still not done, but it's a lot more done than before. It was worth it. I spent about $20K overall on insulation, ceiling under floor, wall, and a heat pump, it's made the house from the coldest i've ever been in to being quite pleasant. It's still not as good as a new house, but it's a really old place. Replacing my downlight fittings should make a difference, I stood on a ladder and you can feel the cold breeze come in there. Even so, when the heat pump's turned off at night and the house is 20 degrees, it's still 14 or so in the morning when it's 8 degrees outside, That's not so bad.

Jaxson:
timmmay: It's quite effective of bringing a little heat into the house on sunny days


Great, just what you want. Wink


I meant the cold sunny days, the roof cavity can still be quite warm on those days. It has a thermostat so it doesn't bring really hot air into the house, so in summer it doesn't make the house too warm.




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  Reply # 486968 28-Jun-2011 15:56
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There already is plastic down there on the non concreted side over the dirt, the problem is water comes in and just pools ontop of the plastic. I really need to dig down on the uphill side of the house and run some novaflow and scoria to stop the water coming in thru the basement walls. Thats not gonna happen for some time so I just want to resume dehumidification. I will sometime soon now I have a car with a towbar get some spouting pipe to take the spouting from that side thru and dump it out on the downhill side of the house till I can afford to get a proper stormwater connection done, as I think thats the major source of all the groundwater that comes into the basement.




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  Reply # 486971 28-Jun-2011 16:02
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richms: There already is plastic down there on the non concreted side over the dirt, the problem is water comes in and just pools ontop of the plastic. I really need to dig down on the uphill side of the house and run some novaflow and scoria to stop the water coming in thru the basement walls. Thats not gonna happen for some time so I just want to resume dehumidification. I will sometime soon now I have a car with a towbar get some spouting pipe to take the spouting from that side thru and dump it out on the downhill side of the house till I can afford to get a proper stormwater connection done, as I think thats the major source of all the groundwater that comes into the basement.


In that case, if i was you i would just get a cheap one from Bunnings, Mitre10 Mega, or the Warehouse.  ~$150 is a cheap option, and with the amount of moisture that will be around it will work fine.

I can recommend the Suki brand, it has worked sweet for us.  Friends of ours used another cheap one from the warehouse and havent complained (brought last year)

They all come with a 12month warranty which is fine.  And at half the cost of the fancier ones you can get two and use one in each of your wettest locations.

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  Reply # 486978 28-Jun-2011 16:17
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Yeah richms, really seems like you need to ensure you have waterproof membrane along the outside wall where dirt contacts with your house. Depending on the site that could be a major.

Intermediate options could be to ensure you don't allow water to run along the top of the dirt up to the house, so a trough or similar to direct water running surface water away from the house could be a go'er. You could try a fairly shallow novaflow trench if you suspect the water is mainly surface related?

Redirecting spouting etc is a great idea, as is possibly forced fan extraction from the basement area to aid drying in there also perhaps?

As above, treating the problem instead of the symptoms where possible is the way to go. To maximise the dehumidfiying though, just make sure the room is sealed and warm, even as far as adding another fan heater temporarily to bring it up to temp etc.

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  Reply # 486979 28-Jun-2011 16:17
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timmmay: I meant the cold sunny days, the roof cavity can still be quite warm on those days.


I know, no worries.

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  Reply # 487705 30-Jun-2011 09:46
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average two storey house should have how many dehumidifiers?
seem like a lot people have at least 2. one down n one upstair

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  Reply # 487713 30-Jun-2011 10:03
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richms: the bathroom never drys out between showers despite leaving the fan on etc.


This may be blindingly obvious, but I only realised it relatively recently. A bathroom fan is only going to be able to remove damp air from the bathroom if fresh air can get in easily. So if the window is shut and the door is closed, it's not going to do much. I know the room obviously won't be completely airtight, but the fan is only going to be able to pump air out at the rate it can come in. So a big wide hose running from the fan to the outside is a bit of a waste of time if the dry air can only squeeze through a small crack at the side of the door to get in.

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  Reply # 487734 30-Jun-2011 10:42
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pinkydot: average two storey house should have how many dehumidifiers?
seem like a lot people have at least 2. one down n one upstair


The average two story house should have none. The cause of the moisture should be addressed, rather than going after the symptoms.

talisker:
richms: the bathroom never drys out between showers despite leaving the fan on etc.


This may be blindingly obvious, but I only realised it relatively recently. A bathroom fan is only going to be able to remove damp air from the bathroom if fresh air can get in easily. So if the window is shut and the door is closed, it's not going to do much. I know the room obviously won't be completely airtight, but the fan is only going to be able to pump air out at the rate it can come in. So a big wide hose running from the fan to the outside is a bit of a waste of time if the dry air can only squeeze through a small crack at the side of the door to get in.


That's one problem with modern houses, they're airtight and often have no ventilation, so moisture sticks around. My ex had a very damp bathroom in a newly renovated house, paint pealing, always damp. The builder suggested cutting the door a little shorter so air can get in to help draw the moist air out. I disagreed, because the fan wasn't over the shower, air would go from the door out the fan, without taking the moisture from above the shower. I suggested either opening the window (which was a bit better in terms of airflow direction) or even better putting a fan above the shower.

When I bought my older house the bathroom filled with steam when anyone had a shower, despite the exhaust fan above the shower. I couldn't get a better fan, so I put a second, better quality fan beside it, and the problems went away. The bathroom is dry now. Of course it has a sliding door so air gets around it easily, the bathroom windows are old and don't seal 100%, and I have a ventilation system that will push a little air through the bathroom 8 hours a day.




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  Reply # 487758 30-Jun-2011 11:19
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timmmay:
That's one problem with modern houses, they're airtight and often have no ventilation, so moisture sticks around. My ex had a very damp bathroom in a newly renovated house, paint pealing, always damp. The builder suggested cutting the door a little shorter so air can get in to help draw the moist air out. I disagreed, because the fan wasn't over the shower, air would go from the door out the fan, without taking the moisture from above the shower. I suggested either opening the window (which was a bit better in terms of airflow direction) or even better putting a fan above the shower.

When I bought my older house the bathroom filled with steam when anyone had a shower, despite the exhaust fan above the shower. I couldn't get a better fan, so I put a second, better quality fan beside it, and the problems went away. The bathroom is dry now. Of course it has a sliding door so air gets around it easily, the bathroom windows are old and don't seal 100%, and I have a ventilation system that will push a little air through the bathroom 8 hours a day.


We have a standard square shower with a glass door. I installed my own adaption of a Shower Dome (http://www.showerdome.co.nz/) by using a sheet of perspex and a jigsaw.  Works wonders at keeping the steam in the shower unit. No more steamed up mirror (apart from if you leave the shower door open)

This has kept the moisture down in the bathroom which has helped the house.

Edit:  It also makes the shower much warmer, so we use less hot water cause we dont have to turn the hot tap up to compensate for lost heat.

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  Reply # 487762 30-Jun-2011 11:26
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Does it get annoying that the shower steams up? I always figured if I had a showerdome i'd link the extractor directly to the top of it, so I could see in the shower.




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  Reply # 487766 30-Jun-2011 11:34
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timmmay: Does it get annoying that the shower steams up? I always figured if I had a showerdome i'd link the extractor directly to the top of it, so I could see in the shower.


The shower steams up when you first turn it on, but once the temperature in the shower warms up (seconds really) there is no steam inside the shower.  Comparing it to showers without the dome there is a lot less steam because cold air cannot get in.

The only issue that happens (due to the sheet being flat) is you can get drops of water forming on top and dripping down.  That issue is quickly solved with a quick wipe down with our rubber window scraper (similar to ones at petrol stations)  which by the way is an excellent way to keep your shower glass and walls clean and free from soap scum!

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