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  Reply # 487768 30-Jun-2011 11:36
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timmmay: Does it get annoying that the shower steams up? I always figured if I had a showerdome i'd link the extractor directly to the top of it, so I could see in the shower.

I'm always interested when people say this, as if the shower would steam up so much that you couldn't find yourself to clean?!

Apparently, no steam is produced in the shower because there's no cold air.  I'm interested to hear if this matches jaymz's experience.

Edit: Too slow...

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  Reply # 487770 30-Jun-2011 11:39
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jaymz:
timmmay: Does it get annoying that the shower steams up? I always figured if I had a showerdome i'd link the extractor directly to the top of it, so I could see in the shower.


The shower steams up when you first turn it on, but once the temperature in the shower warms up (seconds really) there is no steam inside the shower.  Comparing it to showers without the dome there is a lot less steam because cold air cannot get in.

The only issue that happens (due to the sheet being flat) is you can get drops of water forming on top and dripping down.  That issue is quickly solved with a quick wipe down with our rubber window scraper (similar to ones at petrol stations)  which by the way is an excellent way to keep your shower glass and walls clean and free from soap scum!

Improving the ventilation in our ensuite is not really practical so we mostly use a dehumidifer to pull out the moisture.  I'm really interested in getting a showerdome.  DIY may be the cheaper way to go I suppose, but with the Showerdome you wouldn't get the drips, I guess.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 487775 30-Jun-2011 11:46
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bazzer:
Improving the ventilation in our ensuite is not really practical so we mostly use a dehumidifer to pull out the moisture.  I'm really interested in getting a showerdome.  DIY may be the cheaper way to go I suppose, but with the Showerdome you wouldn't get the drips, I guess.


The DIY way was really just a trial for us, I didn't want to pay the $250 for a dome, so I brought a sheet for ~$70 and did it myself.  The idea was that if the DIY job worked, then we would buy the dome. but since the DIY one worked so well, we just stuck with it.

The drips are not a major issue, I wipe them off maybe once every 2 weeks, and even then it is after multiple showers that morning/night

I would recommend trying it out with a DYI solution first then make you mind up from there Laughing

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  Reply # 487777 30-Jun-2011 11:46
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bazzer:
timmmay: Does it get annoying that the shower steams up? I always figured if I had a showerdome i'd link the extractor directly to the top of it, so I could see in the shower.

I'm always interested when people say this, as if the shower would steam up so much that you couldn't find yourself to clean?!


I just have a general preference toward being able to see properly. Ever taken a shower in total darkness? It works fine but it feels weird.

bazzer:Improving the ventilation in our ensuite is not really practical so we mostly use a dehumidifer to pull out the moisture.  I'm really interested in getting a showerdome.  DIY may be the cheaper way to go I suppose, but with the Showerdome you wouldn't get the drips, I guess.


Why can't you improve ventilation? How about a ceiling or wall mounted extractor fan, with the air being dumped outside?




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  Reply # 487780 30-Jun-2011 11:50
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These (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/bathroom-sink-kitchen-sink-water-recycling-water-filter,news-10458.html) would be so usefull in nearly every bathroom in the world!

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  Reply # 487788 30-Jun-2011 12:00
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As you've mentioned yourself timmay, air can be warm and full of water. As long as you keep it away from anything cold, it'll happily hold that water and therefore there is 'no steam'. Once the shower (capped with the dome) heats up, you won't get steam in there.....

Likewise in a bathroom, if you open a window to outside and then turn your fan on you are going to rapidly cool the room with cold outside air, which will create 'steam'/water vapour. Ideally, though rather counter intuitively, if you leave the fan on, but the outside window shut until after you've finished the shower then you're less likely to have the room filled with steam. You can then open the window at the end to quickly turn over the air in the room, and by this stage you won't be adding any more to the problem as the shower won't be on anymore.

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  Reply # 487796 30-Jun-2011 12:17
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Jaxson: As you've mentioned yourself timmay, air can be warm and full of water. As long as you keep it away from anything cold, it'll happily hold that water and therefore there is 'no steam'. Once the shower (capped with the dome) heats up, you won't get steam in there.....

Likewise in a bathroom, if you open a window to outside and then turn your fan on you are going to rapidly cool the room with cold outside air, which will create 'steam'/water vapour. Ideally, though rather counter intuitively, if you leave the fan on, but the outside window shut until after you've finished the shower then you're less likely to have the room filled with steam. You can then open the window at the end to quickly turn over the air in the room, and by this stage you won't be adding any more to the problem as the shower won't be on anymore.


You have some good points in there, I never considered the cold air from outside thing. Warm air from inside makes more sense, though I wonder if the difference between 10 and 20 degrees makes a difference when compared with steam which is probably a lot hotter.

I wonder if moist air retaining water or condensation causes more problems, with regards to dampness and also making paint flake.




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  Reply # 487798 30-Jun-2011 12:23
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timmmay: I just have a general preference toward being able to see properly. Ever taken a shower in total darkness? It works fine but it feels weird.

Of course, but I just can't imagine a shower getting so steamy that you'd compare it to darkness?  It's not like it's a full on sauna!

timmmay: Why can't you improve ventilation? How about a ceiling or wall mounted extractor fan, with the air being dumped outside?

Clearly those would be the two options we considered and dismissed as impractical due to the design of the ensuite.  There are options, but compared to the $250 for a showerdome, I would classify them as not really practical.

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  Reply # 487819 30-Jun-2011 13:08
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timmmay:
I wonder if moist air retaining water or condensation causes more problems, with regards to dampness and also making paint flake.


Moist/water laden/humid air at least means it's possible to extract the water from the room by carrying away the air holding it.  Once it's on the walls as water then no amount of air movement will grab it (well basically...). 

So point is you stand a better chance of removing the water whilst it is suspended in the air, than you do when it's condensed onto the walls. 

So, keeping the room warm is probably a good step right up until when you've finished having a shower/adding to the problem.  Ideally you'd want to supply air into the room from the rest of your house as it might be warmer than the outside air.  Once you've got rid of most of the 'wet air' then you could open the outside window and flush the room fully with what will probably be colder air.

But yeah, a triangle.  Heat, Insulation and Ventilation.  You can have have any 2 you want, just not the other one!  A stick hut has great ventilation.  A sealed polystyrene box has great insulation. It's all a balancing act and every situation needs to address what's best for it, not what the sales man is trying to push, and yeah, new homes are so air tight that we're creating this mould problem ourselves to be 'energy efficient'....

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  Reply # 487824 30-Jun-2011 13:17
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I turn a heater on before I have a shower, because I figure warm air carries more moisture outside, so I pretty much do what Jaxson is suggesting already. Having the heat pump come on before I get up helps too.




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  Reply # 488691 2-Jul-2011 21:44
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I agree with the shower dome. They're amazing. Our bathroom walls would cry (you could see the water running down the walls) after 2 morning showers.

Also agree with the fix the problem not the symptoms.




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  Reply # 488797 3-Jul-2011 13:50
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Arghhh...  We have an old DVS here (installed in 2001 apparently, way before we bought the house). We thought adding a tempervent would be a good measure, after all it heats up the ari being pushed to about 15c, which is a lot more than the air temperature outside during winter, so we can leave the DVS running without getting too cold.

Their agent came up saying they can't retrofit to specific model we have, so it would be about $2,500 to install a new model, a second vent and the two tempervents we want.

We decided to use $1,000 to improve our current ceiling insulation and put the difference into a heat pump. 

Their loss...



 




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  Reply # 489315 4-Jul-2011 19:07
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IlDuce: I have one of the Evantair 20L ones, I bought in 2008, and it has had extensive work and always performed well. I believe it uses about 350 Watts. I can feel warm air coming out the output side - so as well as dehumidifying it also adds to the heating.

It extracts a lot of water even at less than optimal temperatures. Whereas my mothers 10 litre, non warehouse one is completely useless.

The downside to my one is it is really noisy. Like several orders of magnitude noisier than a fan heater.

I have an Evantair too, looks like its rated at 16L/day but also 350W so probably the same compressor and reasonably effective. Seems to be quiet enough except the fan causes a really annoying rattle and I never found the source when I opened it up. Has an outlet for a hose if I ever want to hook up to a drain, but yeah, anything with a compressor is expensive. I think the tiny dehumidifiers are more for a cupboard or sealed room.




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  Reply # 489317 4-Jul-2011 19:10
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timmmay:
bazzer:
jaymz: What are your plans for it? Drying out the whole house, or only certain rooms? We use ours to dry clothes (seperate room)

I think you'd be better off using a dryer, I'm sure that's more efficient.


I thought about that earlier, I wonder if it's true. A drier blows warm dry air through the clothes, then if it's set up correctly that warm damp air gets sent outside, throwing away the heat you paid for. With a dehumidifier the heat stays in the room and the water gets put into a container. It's possible that a dehumidifier could be more efficient.

A heat pump clothes drier with a heat recovery unit/heat exchanger built into the output to prewarm incoming air could be very very efficient.

Unfortunately the condenser is the part that both cools the air and extracts the moisture, so probably better to just point the dehumidifier at the drier's air intake, and run the drier on low heat.




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  Reply # 489331 4-Jul-2011 20:07
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Just an update for my previous post, I checked the running costs over a couple of days and noted the following:

Running the dehumidifier normally = 3cents per hour (via Cent-a-meter)
Dehumidfier in defrost cycle = 4-5cents per hour (again via Cent-a-meter)

It really doesn't seem to use much power at al which is good, we use it with the dial set about halfway which means it turns on and off again during the day rather than running the whole time.

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