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Topic # 86570 8-Jul-2011 18:36
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There does not seem to be a job forum other than just job ads, so I'll post here but mods feel free to move it :)

I am just wondering that I noticed some difference amongst the students themselves re: say first year university students and those in technical colleges.  Even in high school and certainly at uni students wrote essays sat exams etc ... I've noticed that technical colleges they answer multiple choice questions or short statement questions and cannot do longer writeups .... what's up with that?

Is entry IT roles relatively low pay?  I've noticed that some call centre roles pay the same or more than some IT roles.  Is there an over supply in the market?  Compared to uni grades would uni grads have more pay and would IT get the same/better pay once they get to a more senior level or a more specialist level?

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  Reply # 491233 8-Jul-2011 18:50
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TBH It depends on what sort of qualification you get. I graduated from an institute of technology and with a Bachelor's degree and went into an internship as a Systems Analyst. My course required a fair degree of technical writing, especially when it came to the third year project where I practically wrote a tome of documentation. 

I think the main difference between universities and technical institutes is the learning style. I see universities as being more about sitting in lectures and learning facts by rote, whereas a technical institute provides a more hands on approach where you have small classes with one on one tutoring being the norm.  




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  Reply # 491253 8-Jul-2011 19:39
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AUT, Auckland Uni seems pretty big.  I mean those like AMES and so forth ... who provide short diploma fast tracked courses et al ...

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  Reply # 491255 8-Jul-2011 19:47
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Ah those. tbh I don't think there's much value in them - for the majority of lower level IT jobs qualifications are of little value or importance. 




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  Reply # 491322 9-Jul-2011 01:42
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Depends what area of IT you want to go into?

It's actually a wide field and fairly specialised especially at entry level imo

Systems Admin
Database Admin
Designer
Business Analyst/Programmer/Developer
Sofware Tester / QA
Technical writer/documentation
Software/hardware Sales
Project Management
Networking
Support
Etc

Here's IT, Auckland, Full Time, Under 60k on Seek
http://www.seek.co.nz/JobSearch?DateRange=31&Keywords=&location=1018&industry=6281&worktype=242&&SearchType=Refinement&Refinement=Salary&salary=0-60000 

Expand the sub classification in the left column to look at in demand job types... match that up with what areas you're interested in then figure out what training you needed to get started.

Short diploma's probably aren't going to cut it for a decent entry level job, with a degree from AUT or Auckland Uni you have a better shot at roles where the employer won't even consider people with some minor certifications.

With that said I have seen people go straight from school into bottom level roles like 1st level help desk and work their way up to much higher positions.  It can work but I think it's harder to do these days with high youth unemployment.
 

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  Reply # 491338 9-Jul-2011 09:13
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as a whole in IT it's pretty tough to get a job if you don't have experience anyway.




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  Reply # 491351 9-Jul-2011 10:38

IT at polytechs and so on are far more practical based, that's simply the type of degree it is. At University, the closest to IT is probably Information Science, and as hinted in the name, it's the science behind IT; not necessarily the practical application of it (although it does include that in projects etc, but you wouldn't be found pulling apart a computer). Computer Science is another, vastly different field also.

It's funny, people all the time say it differently. IT has plenty of jobs! IT has no jobs! But take a look on Trade Me jobs, there are plenty of IT jobs. The problem is that there are very few entry-level positions in IT for someone who just merely graduates. As above, you desperately need to have experience if you hope to get a job in the field - or be very, very lucky. Try an aim for an internship or a summer job somewhere - I know that Allied Press in Dunedin have about 3 positions available for work over the summer between end and start of your course.

IT pays incredibly well, in fact, it ranks just below doctors on pay rate. The problem is actually getting the job -- there is a shortage of doctors, there is a surplus of IT trained people (but not of IT specialists).

The industry needs both types of qualifications.



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  Reply # 491361 9-Jul-2011 11:26
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It's just been my observation that's all.  Yeah there are high end pay jobs but saturated maybe the entry market.  It seems thou for IT at least you need to get more experience and more certifications before it becomes a decent career (have your own place, have a family etc).  I mean back in 2003 my first role in a govt call centre I was paid $33k.  But then it's again just a 1yr course from those places. 


Would anyone know what is required to move into IT Audit or where you are doing data mining/extraction for various reports for the companies?

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  Reply # 491441 9-Jul-2011 16:06
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maknz:
....but you wouldn't be found pulling apart a computer


Yes but a certificate in pulling apart a computer is practically useless, it's so easy anyone can do that job with minimal training or just self learning.  

There is an oversupply people who can do entry level technician jobs and entry level IT helpdesk because anyone can do those jobs.

If you add the word graduate to the search I linked earlier
http://www.seek.co.nz/JobSearch?DateRange=31&Keywords=graduate&location=1018&industry=6281&worktype=242&salary=-60000&SearchFrom=quickupper&SearchType=search+again 

You can see there is a lot of demand for software developers and programmers and I think this has been the case for many years.




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  Reply # 491444 9-Jul-2011 16:19
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rayonline: It's just been my observation that's all.  Yeah there are high end pay jobs but saturated maybe the entry market.  It seems thou for IT at least you need to get more experience and more certifications before it becomes a decent career (have your own place, have a family etc).  I mean back in 2003 my first role in a govt call centre I was paid $33k.  But then it's again just a 1yr course from those places. 

Would anyone know what is required to move into IT Audit or where you are doing data mining/extraction for various reports for the companies?


Not sure, I would try contacting an industry body like http://www.iianz.org.nz/ for information.

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