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1032 posts

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  # 522964 19-Sep-2011 12:08
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Brendan:
Is it the belief (for it cannot be a fact, scientifically speaking) of the skeptics here that conspiracies do NOT exist?


Oh no, conspiracies do exist and skeptics recognize this. There's plenty of conspiracies I believe in.

I even have two of my own, and with no evidence, just anecdotes and a some hunches. Hee hee! 




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Ultimate Geek


  # 522967 19-Sep-2011 12:10
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awesome

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek

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  # 522974 19-Sep-2011 12:28
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ScottStevensNZ: 

The burden of proof is on those who believe in the conspiracy theory (and provide me with an Illuminati application, but I beleive that is already in the mail - thanks Mauricio!).


I am not asking if a conspiracy theory is true or not, I am asking if conspiracies exist or not AT ALL. In the minds of skeptics, is it possible to construct a real live conspiracy?

Fact is, even the most basic tools of Logic can disprove conspiracy theories.


No, logic does not such thing. It is logically impossible to disprove anything.
What you mean, I think, is that facts can make any theory irrelevant or unlikely.

What is more likely - that 9/11 was an inside job by the US government involving massive amounts of planning and secrecy and the result of wiring 100+ story buildings with demolition charges without any of the thousands of employees of those buildings noticing? Or a bunch religious nut jobs with a history of suicide bombings and who admitted to doing it?


You are not asking for facts or disproving anything here - you are asking for a statistic.

The thing is with conspiracy theories is that they (ironically) present the most circuitous complex explaination for an event - which is proabably why I enjoy them so much :)


And yet circuitous explanations are at the core of science. No one would call quantum chromodynamics or m-theory or chaos theory straight forward.

It seems that it is not the complexity of the explanation that indicates truth or falsity, but rather the facts and logic behind it.

But that is not the question I asked.
 

gzt

11021 posts

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  # 522980 19-Sep-2011 12:44
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freitasm: You haven't received the invite to the secret forum yet? Actually, I am thinking we should create a Skepticism forum...


Agree. However, 'skepticism' is really a kind of philosophy. A more inclusive title might be 'Skeptical Enquiry'.

Thanks for the invite to the secret forum and the illuminati welcome message. Unfortunately I will be attending a bilderbergers meeting next week and my masonic robes are still at the dry cleaners getting the blood removed.

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Ultimate Geek

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  # 522985 19-Sep-2011 12:53
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BurningBeard:
Brendan:
Is it the belief (for it cannot be a fact, scientifically speaking) of the skeptics here that conspiracies do NOT exist?


Oh no, conspiracies do exist and skeptics recognize this. There's plenty of conspiracies I believe in.

I even have two of my own, and with no evidence, just anecdotes and a some hunches. Hee hee! 


Interesting.

Assuming a competently run conspiracy, how would a skeptic outside the conspiracy be convinced of the existence of the conspiracy? 
 

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Master Geek


  # 522988 19-Sep-2011 13:00
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Brendan: ScottStevensNZ: 

The burden of proof is on those who believe in the conspiracy theory (and provide me with an Illuminati application, but I beleive that is already in the mail - thanks Mauricio!).


I am not asking if a conspiracy theory is true or not, I am asking if conspiracies exist or not AT ALL. In the minds of skeptics, is it possible to construct a real live conspiracy?


Not to invoke Godwins law - the Final Solution was a conspiracy and a very well documented one at that, so was Pearl Harbour. Conspiracies do exist and I would term that actions under taken in secret to produce an outcome can fall within that rubric. As to if a 'Conspiracy Theory' Exists then it needs to be able to stand up to the rigour that the use of the word 'Theory' implies. More accurately they should be called conspiracy assetions IMHO.






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  # 522989 19-Sep-2011 13:02
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Brendan:
Assuming a competently run conspiracy    ...(edit).... 

I think this statement requires some clarification. 

 
 
 
 


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Master Geek


  # 522991 19-Sep-2011 13:03
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attending a bilderbergers meeting next week and my masonic robes are still at the dry cleaners getting the blood removed.


I didn't get that invite! When is it? Maybe it conflicts with my Cabal of Jewish bankers meeting...




Load & Performance Tester/PHP/JSP/C/PERL/MYSQL/LoadRunner8->11/HTML/CSS/XML/XSLT/2B|!2B/Cervelo Soloist/EMC Equip4/ Samsung Galaxy S /Darkys 10.2 Extreme

Do androids dream of electric sheep?
use strict;
my $sheepCount;

Yes, they can.

gzt

11021 posts

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  # 522999 19-Sep-2011 13:14
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ScottStevensNZ:
attending a bilderbergers meeting next week and my masonic robes are still at the dry cleaners getting the blood removed.

I didn't get that invite! When is it? Maybe it conflicts with my Cabal of Jewish bankers meeting...

At the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month of the 11th year of course. You're right, same day as the banking cabal meeting. I think I can see what Freitas is trying to do here. The illuminati are going to take over the bankers cabal. The ancient balance of power will be changed for the worse. No alternative, I have to warn them, oh no, don't arghh, (gurgling sound..)

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Ultimate Geek


  # 523000 19-Sep-2011 13:15
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i like it, just read the crank how to and found myself chortling quietly


however i dont think any amount of information will help some of those truly misguided souls





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gzt

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  # 523007 19-Sep-2011 13:24
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The advantage of a separate forum for this content is topic rules will be enforced a bit more. At present there are glimmers of worthy and interesting discussion which get going in these types of threads but they tend to end up going all over the place (in my view an accepted and desirable convention of geekzone off-topic threads) instead of achieving nerdy nirvana and moving on to a higher level.

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Master Geek


  # 523009 19-Sep-2011 13:26
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gzt:
ScottStevensNZ:
attending a bilderbergers meeting next week and my masonic robes are still at the dry cleaners getting the blood removed.

I didn't get that invite! When is it? Maybe it conflicts with my Cabal of Jewish bankers meeting...

At the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month of the 11th year of course. You're right, same day as the banking cabal meeting. I think I can see what Freitas is trying to do here. The illuminati are going to take over the bankers cabal. The ancient balance of power will be changed for the worse. No alternative, I have to warn them, oh no, don't arghh, (gurgling sound..)


Thats going to make scheduling so much easier. Will there still be free food?




Load & Performance Tester/PHP/JSP/C/PERL/MYSQL/LoadRunner8->11/HTML/CSS/XML/XSLT/2B|!2B/Cervelo Soloist/EMC Equip4/ Samsung Galaxy S /Darkys 10.2 Extreme

Do androids dream of electric sheep?
use strict;
my $sheepCount;

Yes, they can.

6434 posts

Uber Geek


  # 523015 19-Sep-2011 13:31
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Brendan:
ScottStevensNZ: 

The burden of proof is on those who believe in the conspiracy theory (and provide me with an Illuminati application, but I beleive that is already in the mail - thanks Mauricio!).


I am not asking if a conspiracy theory is true or not, I am asking if conspiracies exist or not AT ALL. In the minds of skeptics, is it possible to construct a real live conspiracy?

 


of course.

to name but one, the watergate scandal was a conspiracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

or how about the gunpowder plot "remember remember the 5th of November."  that was a conspiracy.


I don't think there are many people around who would argue that both of these events happened.

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  # 523022 19-Sep-2011 13:58
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Brendan: I dislike any form of faith based belief. Politics and religion are examples of this.

People believe in both of them.

Strange eh?
 


Politics isn't a matter of faith. It's the process by which people work out who gets to drive, who sits in the front seat..and who rides in the back. It's played out every second of every day everywhere.

Religion is a club for people who choose to believe something. It might be true and it might not. Most often they involved a deity who doesn't stand up to empirical scrutiny.

Ideology is religion without the ghosts. Ideology and politics are frequently confused as ideology is frequently acted out in the course of conducting politics.

It's important to understand what's real...and what isn't. :-)




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Ultimate Geek

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# 523065 19-Sep-2011 15:19
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Apparently, the world was flat and all the stars and planets revolved around the earth.  Thank goodness for conspiracy theorists proving the ruling bodies wrong.

Governments and societies have in the past used plausible deniability to ridicule those speaking up against the status-quo and the doctrines of the time.  We should question our ability to blindly follow - just because everyone else does.

Remember, it's only paranoia if someone isn't out to get you.  Otherwise it's called being alert.





Procrastination eventually pays off.


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