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51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 602579 30-Mar-2012 15:40
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BurningBeard:
nullmee: 
Have you watched the video?  It was witnessed by more than one person and they did get video footage. 


And that footage is where?

Just because he was an astronaut, doesn't make him any more credible than any other eye-witness account or anecdote. Astronauts are capable of the same cognitive errors or making stuff up just as much as the next guy.

This "saucer" description that caught on after the Kenneth Arnold sightings is curious. He only ever said they seemed to skim the sky like saucers, not shaped like them.


It does make him more credible actually.  When you have such a high profile person as himself making these claims, it makes it less likely that he is going to make that stuff up because they have a lot to loose

The video's could have been classified as top secret or something, who knows where they are

I bet if I gave an example of some Joe Bloggs encounter with a UFO you would be going on about his credibility

Let me make this clear I'm not trying to get into a debate about if aliens exist or not, I'm only trying to give some good examples of UFO's, (Unidendified Flying Object's).  Not aliens ;)


Here is another one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLfgSgG6cE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colares_UFO_flap

Typical skeptics, have an excuse for everything :)

If you think all of these stories are either made up, illusions or miss-interpreting things, why do you think it is so common?

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Spark NZ

  Reply # 602585 30-Mar-2012 15:47
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nullmee: [snip]

If you think all of these stories are either made up, illusions or miss-interpreting things, why do you think it is so common?


Because a vast number of people are attention seeking to the point of dysfunction - and there are LOT of people on the planet, you only need an utterly insignificant number of people to make stuff up or misjudge something to have a lot of stories in the media.

Maybe the question you SHOULD be asking is how many people on the planet have NOT seen a UFO... You see, there's a strong reporting bias here...

It's like if you only listened to the media you would think that 95% of police are corrupt, evil or stupid. Oddly the cases where they are professional, helpful and competent don't make headline news.

N.

 
 
 
 


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51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 602601 30-Mar-2012 16:12
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Talkiet:
nullmee: [snip]

If you think all of these stories are either made up, illusions or miss-interpreting things, why do you think it is so common?


Because a vast number of people are attention seeking to the point of dysfunction - and there are LOT of people on the planet, you only need an utterly insignificant number of people to make stuff up or misjudge something to have a lot of stories in the media.

Maybe the question you SHOULD be asking is how many people on the planet have NOT seen a UFO... You see, there's a strong reporting bias here...

It's like if you only listened to the media you would think that 95% of police are corrupt, evil or stupid. Oddly the cases where they are professional, helpful and competent don't make headline news.

N.


Quite a few people have seen UFO's.  Ive spoken to many people have have seen them.   How many people do you know that are "attention seeking to the point of dysfunction"  and are willing to put there reputation, career at risk just to get attention?  You say there are a vast number but personally I don't know much people that would do that. 

The thing I find really annoying about skeptics is they all seem to have the same answers when it comes to these things, and comes off as really arrogant.  Blanket answers that covers all issues that don't fit into there belief system.  I'm open minded and the UFO's I have seen could well have been some type of atmospheric phenomenon, they could be lots of things but still unexplainable.  But they are really unlikely to be illusions or stars such as venus, squid boats or any crap like that.  That is just insulting to me.

Check this out http://www.nuforc.org/, there are lots of people reporting UFO sightings on this website from around the world

Here is another http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_incident

If I listened to the media I would think "95% of police are corrupt, evil or stupid"  Really where did you get that percentage from?  Did you do a survey or something?

Actually the media don't make out the police to be corrupt, evil or stupid.  It is just a common perception from people

And have you seen any of these case in the mainstream media?

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Spark NZ

  Reply # 602603 30-Mar-2012 16:19
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nullmee: [snip]


Way to absolutely misread and/or misinterpret my point.

I find it utterly stunning you're seemingly prepared to believe a large percentage of people have seen UFOs because some people you know have.

The reason a lot of skeptics always have the same answers for everything is... No, forget it.. You'll just make up a reason for logic and critical thinking being a bad idea.

Cheers - N

51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 602611 30-Mar-2012 16:31
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"I find it utterly stunning you're seemingly prepared to believe a large percentage of people have seen UFOs because some people you know have."

Where did I say that?

I think you are the one misinterpreting things here

Maybe it is the "neurological impacts of the high G forces" from the crap firing out your rear end causing you to misinterpret what I saying? Tongue Out

Never mind I shouldn't have started posting on here, I knew this would happen.


51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 602630 30-Mar-2012 17:07
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Have a look at this site, looks interesting http://www.ufoskeptic.org/

gzt

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  Reply # 602674 30-Mar-2012 18:53
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The problem is that evidence for existence of sentient UFOs is about as good as the evidence for the existence of angels. You can see it in that ufoskeptic site by a scientist who is seriously pursuing the topic. There is so little to go on that most of it is filled by pure speculation and quite a bit of 3rd hand anecdotal talk.

Nullmee - please learn how to format your links, so much easier to use.

51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 602705 30-Mar-2012 20:09
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"Nullmee - please learn how to format your links, so much easier to use." - yeah sorry pretty hopeless there

51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 602714 30-Mar-2012 20:40
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gzt: The problem is that evidence for existence of sentient UFOs is about as good as the evidence for the existence of angels. You can see it in that ufoskeptic site by a scientist who is seriously pursuing the topic. There is so little to go on that most of it is filled by pure speculation and quite a bit of 3rd hand anecdotal talk.

Nullmee - please learn how to format your links, so much easier to use.


Yeah good reading

Here are a few quotes from his website

"I now have three completely independent examples of individuals whom I trust reporting to me that individuals they trust have admitted to handling alien materials in "our" possession in the course of secret official duties. And in yet two more cases, I am similarly one (trustworthy) step removed from a former head of a federal government agency who was involved with a special access program reporting decades-long extraterrestrial reverse engineering efforts and a head of state of a G8 country who also said he had been officially briefed on that program.

"I propose that true skepticism is called for today: neither the gullible acceptance of true belief nor the closed-minded rejection of the scoffer masquerading as the skeptic. One should be skeptical of both the believers and the scoffers. The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism. If a competent witness reports having seen something tens of degrees of arc in size (as happens) and the scoffer -- who of course was not there -- offers Venus or a high altitude weather balloon as an explanation, the requirement of extraordinary proof for an extraordinary claim falls on the proffered negative claim as well. That kind of approach is also pseudo-science. Moreover just being a scientist confers neither necessary expertise nor sufficient knowledge. (I wish it did, sigh.) Any scientist who has not read a few serious books and articles presenting actual UFO evidence should out of intellectual honesty refrain from making scientific pronouncements. To look at the evidence and go away unconvinced is one thing. To not look at the evidence and be convinced against it nonetheless is another. That is not science. Do your homework!" 

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  Reply # 602717 30-Mar-2012 20:44
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Perhaps if everyone who every claimed to have seen a UFO then underwent a standard eye-test, and also perhaps some form of standardised distant perception/identification problem solving against known artefacts, objects and phenomena.... Whats the bet that would significantly reduce reports to ones that truely were unexplained?

Of course maybe after spending an incalculable number of light years getting into Earths Orbit, the unknown visitors get annoyed with our broadband speeds, and after a couple of laps decide there's nothing to see here so set off for the next suitable star.

51 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 602724 30-Mar-2012 21:01
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Add to that a standard rectal probing as well.  I think that may significantly reduce the number of UFO claims

Slow broadband?  Maybe if the visited New Zealand aye 

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  Reply # 602953 31-Mar-2012 16:26
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nullmee:Typical skeptics, have an excuse for everything :)


That's not the case at all. My stance has always been, if we don't know what it is, then it's okay to not know.  Jumping to conclusions without sufficient data is how we end up forming irrational beliefs.

nullmee:If you think all of these stories are either made up, illusions or miss-interpreting things, why do you think it is so common?


Why are religious beliefs so common? Why do people believe in astrology and psychics?

A yearning for "something else" perhaps. Some of the things that people have interpreted as alien are astounding. I've done it. I was a UFO nut for a very long time and found it quite exciting to feel like I was perpetually on the edge of something that was on the verge of breaking through (of course, it never does.)

I tire of people misrepresenting the sceptical stance. It's not about "having an excuse for everything" or being right, or anything like that. It's about weighing up the evidence, being aware of human cognitive limitations and the traps of thinking people can fall into, and suspending judgement until sufficient evidence makes a compelling argument.

Without evidence all we're left with is conjecture, anecdotes and "eye witness" accounts, which are notoriously and demonstrably unreliable. The brain is not a tape recorder.




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  Reply # 608094 12-Apr-2012 01:09
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For what it's worth, UFO sightings are more common than you'd think. After all, a UFO is just a flying object you can't identify, not actually proof of aliens at all.

Bee

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 608123 12-Apr-2012 09:07
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Exactly what I was going to say - most people in their lives will probably see a UFO. That is a flying object that they themselves cant identify... was it an alien or something containing a life form not from this planet??? I doubt it...

Id like to believe that there is life on some other planet but so far there is no proof of that and I doubt there will be anything conclusive released to the general public ever.

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  Reply # 608149 12-Apr-2012 10:45
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Oldish news, but - MUFON head quits, calls UFOlogy humans deceiving humans.

Of course hardcore believers think he was payed off, or a government shill.




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