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cisconz
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  #526602 28-Sep-2011 08:49
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Kyanar: Interesting - it looks virtually identical to a Snapper reader which is the same basic technology - can that terminal read Snapper cards with the appropriate merchant setup?
In theory yes, but there is a different app on the unit to read pay pass vs snapper




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  #526702 28-Sep-2011 12:15
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  #528292 2-Oct-2011 17:29
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It looks like Target's next episode might be touching (pun) on the contact-less payment cards.

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  #528914 4-Oct-2011 11:11
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PayWave = Visa
PayPass = Mastercard
Snapper = Pre paid card for buses, tourist attractions and convenience stores.


All use the same nfc technology. Although Snapper is a pre paid card you have to load money on...it's had limited success in NZ with plenty of locations but I can't see this taking off, asking the population to have another card in their wallet that does the same thing as Visa/MC. No major retailer I've seen has taken on Snapper for many reasons...one issue is it's not interface with their Cash registers so you're still double handling the transaction...I might have this wrong but so far that's what I've seen. 

Contactless has driven by the major credit cards and has been around overseas for a while now and has proven to be less vulnerable to fraudulent transactions. If Visa/MC are fully behind this then I can't see why anyone should have anything to fear.

Any transactions up to $80 do not require a pin or signature. I heard people's concerns about skimming etc, but tell me where do the funds go after they've skimmed cards? Or taking the information on the credit cards? this stuff is pretty much useless as all the information is heavily encrypted and even if you could decipher it what would you do with the info? AND YOU ARE INSURED!

Here in NZ ASB recently launched their MC Pay Pass card. BNZ and Kiwibank are apparently next to follow. If you like to see contactless readers for MC/VISA in action, readers are installed in all the major stadiums in NZ. There are pilot sites in various locations: Kingslander, WaterFront, Clare Inn and Gingerbirds


I think people forget there is a benefit to contactless transactions other than it's safer. Its ideal for busy businesses that have large queues and process losts of transactions under $80. Think of Bars, Cafes, Fast Food and theatres etc. If the transaction is over $80 you can still wave your card but it will prompt for a pin or signature.

All in all this technology is coming and is here to stay, embrace it or stick with dirty old money and very slow chipcard transactions! 

Really interested to see what Target say tonight...I'd imagine in a good light since ASB invest plenty of money in advertising with TV3.

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  #529030 4-Oct-2011 13:57
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cisconz:
Kyanar: Interesting - it looks virtually identical to a Snapper reader which is the same basic technology - can that terminal read Snapper cards with the appropriate merchant setup?
In theory yes, but there is a different app on the unit to read pay pass vs snapper


I asked ASB about this on Twitter, their response:


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  #529064 4-Oct-2011 14:33
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So what will happen when you have a snapper and a contactless mastercard/visa in the same wallet and try to get on the bus etc? I know I have to pull out the right accesscard for the building for it to have a reasonable hope of readin, vs leaving in the wallet.




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  #529130 4-Oct-2011 16:48
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Going to be interesting to see if Target manages to change my view of PayPass.




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC a Technology Evangelist and Product Manager. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.


 
 
 
 


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  #532769 13-Oct-2011 11:35
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richms: So what will happen when you have a snapper and a contactless mastercard/visa in the same wallet and try to get on the bus etc? I know I have to pull out the right accesscard for the building for it to have a reasonable hope of readin, vs leaving in the wallet.

Here in Christchurch we have Metrocards rather than Snapper. I can confirm that the bus terminals can't read a Metrocard with a contactless credit card in your wallet as well. It also interferes with the building access cards where I work as well so you have to take your access card out of your wallet to get it to read as well. Big annoyance. I am considering ditching the contactless Mastercard as I can't be bothered with the take things out of your wallet problem.

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  #532778 13-Oct-2011 11:46
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Perhaps someone should design a tinfoil wallet?

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  #532801 13-Oct-2011 12:28
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nate:
cisconz:
Kyanar: Interesting - it looks virtually identical to a Snapper reader which is the same basic technology - can that terminal read Snapper cards with the appropriate merchant setup?
In theory yes, but there is a different app on the unit to read pay pass vs snapper


I asked ASB about this on Twitter, their response:



On a related issue, ASB's FAQ states that we don't have to use NFQ if we don't want to, that we can still use our normal stripe or insert method..
so hopefully the terminals aren't too close together or we'll be swiping and waving, rocking and rolliing (and reeling when we see our statement ;)

https://www.asb.co.nz/story23906.aspx

"You can still insert your credit or debit card just as you always have if you don't want to make a purchase using contactless."


On another tangent, I have finally seen a good use for Twitter - getting an direct answer form someone at a large corporate - well, that is until this becomes to commonly known and they get swamped (hmm, reminds me of email in the old days.. remember when that used to work?! :\ )

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  #532840 13-Oct-2011 13:34
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broozm: On a related issue, ASB's FAQ states that we don't have to use NFQ if we don't want to, that we can still use our normal stripe or insert method..
so hopefully the terminals aren't too close together or we'll be swiping and waving, rocking and rolliing (and reeling when we see our statement ;)

https://www.asb.co.nz/story23906.aspx

"You can still insert your credit or debit card just as you always have if you don't want to make a purchase using contactless."


My issue, and I presume that of others also, is having and carrying around a credit card that can be used for purchases up-to $80 without challenge.

Yes, I understand that any fraud is covered by the CC company/Bank - I will still have the stress of a) having to prove that I did not make the purchases and b) covering the debt/interest until it is resolved.

To those who may call me a Luddite (or worse) I agree the technology will be a great convenience, I no doubt will use it - this does not stop me and my money from becoming a target.

I feel that once NFQ cards are in practically everyones wallet then pick-pocketing becomes worthwhile again as they can spend multiples of $80 without challenge.  It's like carrying packets of $80 around with you all the time.  Apart from the fraud/loss protection there is no difference IMO.





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  #532846 13-Oct-2011 13:48
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StarBlazer:My issue, and I presume that of others also, is having and carrying around a credit card that can be used for purchases up-to $80 without challenge.

Yes, I understand that any fraud is covered by the CC company/Bank - I will still have the stress of a) having to prove that I did not make the purchases and b) covering the debt/interest until it is resolved.

To those who may call me a Luddite (or worse) I agree the technology will be a great convenience, I no doubt will use it - this does not stop me and my money from becoming a target.

I feel that once NFQ cards are in practically everyones wallet then pick-pocketing becomes worthwhile again as they can spend multiples of $80 without challenge.  It's like carrying packets of $80 around with you all the time.  Apart from the fraud/loss protection there is no difference IMO.




While you may have these fears Ive mentioned several times in this thread the data from Australia doesn't back this. NFC is already in large scale use there, and unless credit card companies are hiding data and telling porkies they are reporting no increase in credit card fraud levels. Anybody can steal your non NFC card right now and use it for purchases, NFC isn't going to change this.

If your concerns were justified we'd see large scale issues being reported in Wellington where Snapper cards are carried by a signficant number of people - and these problems aren't occuring.

   

 

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  #532848 13-Oct-2011 13:51
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StarBlazer:
broozm: On a related issue, ASB's FAQ states that we don't have to use NFQ if we don't want to, that we can still use our normal stripe or insert method..
so hopefully the terminals aren't too close together or we'll be swiping and waving, rocking and rolliing (and reeling when we see our statement ;)

https://www.asb.co.nz/story23906.aspx

"You can still insert your credit or debit card just as you always have if you don't want to make a purchase using contactless."


My issue, and I presume that of others also, is having and carrying around a credit card that can be used for purchases up-to $80 without challenge.

Yes, I understand that any fraud is covered by the CC company/Bank - I will still have the stress of a) having to prove that I did not make the purchases and b) covering the debt/interest until it is resolved.

To those who may call me a Luddite (or worse) I agree the technology will be a great convenience, I no doubt will use it - this does not stop me and my money from becoming a target.

I feel that once NFQ cards are in practically everyones wallet then pick-pocketing becomes worthwhile again as they can spend multiples of $80 without challenge.  It's like carrying packets of $80 around with you all the time.  Apart from the fraud/loss protection there is no difference IMO.



Because EVERYONE check's the sig on a card and if I stole your wallet with your current CC card I could not make any purchases....




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

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  #532856 13-Oct-2011 13:57
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sbiddle: Anybody can steal your non NFC card right now and use it for purchases, NFC isn't going to change this.  


No, that's my point, they can't.  If someone steals my card, they either need to reproduce my signature (to a reasonable degree) or they need my PIN.

sbiddle: If your concerns were justified we'd see large scale issues being reported in Wellington where Snapper cards are carried by a signficant number of people - and these problems aren't occuring.  


Snapper is not the same thing.  Most people I know with Snapper only have a few dollars on it - usually enough for a week or month worth of travel.  If it's lost or stolen, there are only limited places it can be used.  This cannot be said for a credit card!

My fears may prove to be unjustified.  It does not stop them from being valid - irrespective of how much data the banks throw around.  Did they provide a breakdown of the type of fraud?  Perhaps they have reduced the larger fraud (skimming etc) but now have more occurrences of smaller fraud (tap and run) - net result = fraud is about the same.

I hope you and the banks' data are correct :)




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