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bener
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  #532377 12-Oct-2011 15:17
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No, I understood that the barges were for pumping oil off the ship, in the days before the leak and the weather became progressively worse.  It seemed that would have been possible from the quoted statement.

If the salvors were responsible they would have definitely been reluctant to use third party barges you are right. These are the barges that were offered, I would have assumed they would anchor them at a safe distance, pump oil from the holds (reach hoses over with ship cranes?) and tug 'em back to shore.

There are many possibilities as to why they were not used, here's hoping they sort something out soon though, that spill is getting nasty!

As Mike Skyrme pointed out, shipping containers semi-submerged are the icing on the cake.  Madness I tell you!!


jeffnz
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  #532382 12-Oct-2011 15:18
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isn't in marvelous we have such dis-information coming through on how things should be handled by sel appointed experts and media plucking out quotes that create a story not report the acvtuals.

We went through all this rubbish with Pike river with all the nutbars saying they should go down the mine to rescue them .. I asked a few of these people, if you were in charge of the rescue and the lives of the rescurers would you send them down the mine given the experts saying it is too dandgerous, few if any answered. Likewise here we have similar claims by ill informed that does nothing more than make people angry.

For those listening to and parroting the so called media facts, wait until all the real facts have come to light before asking why things weren't done. believe me it will save a lot of anxiety attacks.

To those countering the posts with real facts, thanks good to see some reasoning and logic coming through




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jeffnz
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  #532388 12-Oct-2011 15:22
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as an aside I heard on Newstalk this morning a guy from the states that was involved with similar oil spills, most notable being Xxon Valdez. He was asked about the delay and his reply was that was entirely normal and that until you knew all the facts as to what is happening you can't plan as to what you will need.

Go figure




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bener
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  #532390 12-Oct-2011 15:23
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Don't worry Jeff, just pondering the situation, no panic here!
I fully understand we will know nothing concrete until this is all over.  Starting with how they managed to hit the tiny reef in the first place. 

I am definitely not a self appointed expert...

jeffnz
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  #532403 12-Oct-2011 15:42
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Bener I wasn't meaning anyone in particular just venting my frustration on here about all types of comments that have little or no substance.

I realsie things need discussed but i see no point in the what if and but brigade going on as it is counter productive in so many ways




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bener
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  #532408 12-Oct-2011 15:50
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Agreed!

davemc
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  #532531 12-Oct-2011 21:10
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I attended the media briefing at 15:30 today at Tauranga Boys High School auditorium, to listen to the details first hand.  Full recording on youtube  in 4 parts.



John Key and Steven Joyce were both in attendance.

I was very impressed with the detailed information presented, and the comprehensive approach to managing many aspects of the response to the disaster.
The main stream media are relaying the key points from the briefings, not all the detail presented.

MNZ is working hard in the best interests of the NZ people. They will force the salvage master to amend any plans that put his interests in salvage ahead of NZ's interests in environmental damage limitation.  They were very clear on this point.

MNZ are being given any resources they require. When they needed a helicopter to get a key person from Auckland and onto the ship, it was provided straight away.   They fully appreciate both the deep concern and urgent pressure to act from the NZ people.

They have a very experienced captain working alongside the salvage master on the ship and tugs, to ensure they know exactly what is going on, and to figure what is likely to happen next.

There are regular overflights in helicopters with detailed photography to inspect the ship and surrounding conditions.

As well as onboard activities, they are using thermal imaging cameras to determine the location of oil, so they can move first the largest warm masses in most critical locations relative to the cracks.

There are approximately 600 people at the co-ordination centre, from a wide range of govt agencies. 

A crane ship with the capability to remove containers is enroute. Named pol[something] (questionee could not recall the name exactly)

The salvage master is rounding up containers with two tugs and towlines, and marshaling them to an area where they can be landed or loaded. 

There are seven response ships around the Rena at present.  The salvage master is pushing himself and his crew hard to spend as much time on Rena as possible, moving oil, and dealing with the situation.

There is much more detail in the videos, the above is mostly observations from talking to people afterwards, not directly in the briefing.

 
 
 
 


richms
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  #532532 12-Oct-2011 21:12
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For some reason I am getting redirected to youtube when loading the page now?




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mattwnz
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  #532540 12-Oct-2011 21:28
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I think many people are just frustrated by it, and how this could even happen. Also it sounds like us taxpayers will have to fork out a lot to clean up too, as there are caps. It is not as though NZ can afford it, or doesn't have another major disaster to cope with in Christchurch.

John2010
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  #532582 12-Oct-2011 23:03
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davemc:

...A crane ship with the capability to remove containers is enroute. Named pol[something] (questionee could not recall the name exactly)...


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old3eyes
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  #532655 13-Oct-2011 08:36
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What ever way this pans out the NZ news media like the TV news will milk every drop of oil out of it with news vultures flocking there in great numbers looking for people who will cry about their beach on camera..




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MikeyPI
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  #532717 13-Oct-2011 10:24
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YES those media, it must be their fault.

Buck stops squarely with the Government & Maritime NZ. Piss poor regulation most likely driven by our economy at all costs ethos, that values the mighty dollar above all else.

Slowly it leaks out regarding previous "concerns" regarding the Rena...

sbiddle
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  #532729 13-Oct-2011 10:43
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MikeyPI: YES those media, it must be their fault.

Buck stops squarely with the Government & Maritime NZ. Piss poor regulation most likely driven by our economy at all costs ethos, that values the mighty dollar above all else. 



And what is the exact basis of making those comments? It's very simple to make a generalised comment like that, and since you clearly believe what you're saying how about detailing in more that a sentence how either organisation is ultimately responsible for this issue occuring?

 
   

jonb
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  #532736 13-Oct-2011 10:49
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My only concern about the response reaction was how long it seemingly took before the Awanui was on it's way to Tauranga.  Did it go straight up to Marsden point to empty it's current load on hearing about the tragedy - like by 7a.m. the next morning, or was it waiting around for a day or two for an order from someon eup high to go?  I don't pretend to know anything else about salvaging, but I would have expected a response like that to be included in the national emergency planning for this sort of event.

Linuxluver
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  #532741 13-Oct-2011 11:00
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gzt: Really interesting points about the technical aspects of the recovery. Any idea which disperants they are using?

John2010: Certainly idiotic those who claim the government are better at running the salvage than the salvors and insurers who do it all the time. One has to wonder if the Greens and Labour have even a microgram of business and management sense in their heads.


I have not seen anybody here claiming that.

The perception of many people onshore (including me) is that the response has been slow. And with the media initially talking about owners and insurers assessing the situation before seeing any action, many are suspecting the speed of the initial response was dictated by the speed of wheels turning in a corporate bureaucracy - with the responsible government agencies (MNZ I guess) largely taking a 'wait and see' position on the outcome initially when they could have been more proactive.

That said it looks like things are in full gear at the moment. The main concerns are around the speed and co-ordination of the initial response.

[Edit: Followed by NZ's capacity and capability to deal with larger events of this nature]


+1

In absolute terms, the response has been slow. Expoert or not, there can't really be any debate about that. The ship was stuck on the reef, in clear, clam weather for days before anything useful happened. 

The capability to respond does not - and did not - not match the requirement. That is obvious to anyone  who understands the oil needed to be removed before the ship broke up...and time was of the eseence there.    



 




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