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  # 533751 15-Oct-2011 16:53
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alasta: I attended the event in Wellington and it was a bit chaotic. The organisers didn't want to make specific plans as they wanted attendees to decide what they wanted to do, but the lack of leadership and a clear message was really counter productive


How ironic



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  # 533753 15-Oct-2011 16:54
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@alasta

You make a good point about leadership.
It seems these events don't want to have a recognisable leadership so there is no head to "cut off", so to speak.

But, the catch 22 is that when there is no leadership for ideas to flow towards, then it just becomes stagnant.

It's a fine line that probably needs to be sorted out for these events to have any tangible and positive outcome.

 
 
 
 




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  # 533759 15-Oct-2011 17:08
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John2010: Dontpanic42 your signature "People are stupid" says it all. Tell us how it feels?


We are all stupid, and we are all hypocrits. There's no denying that.
At the very least, these groups of people have recognised their own stupidity, as well as others, and want to do something about it.
However misguided these events may seem, it is at least a start to something that could potentially be positive for everyone.
They could also just wither away into the nothingness of public apathy.

I won't bite any further with that comment.
Tongue Out

EDIT: STUPID spelling mistake.

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  # 533768 15-Oct-2011 17:28
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Bear with me, these are my opinions (based on what I have read/viewed) and any constructive rebuttal is welcome. ;)

I do side with the pain of people about big corporations who take advantage of the human population that ultimately adversely effects the outcome for us all...

Ie abusing the price of Petrol, Drugs, Milk, NZ's fruit/veg,

BUT

As far as I have learnt/researched, there is no better alternative. Our world (centered around NZ), which is far from a utopia, provides us with both good and bad things.

Granted, I think this movement began with the USA's problems of corruption/excess politics/fear of terror/governments self destructive tendencies/unemployment rate/loss of 'super power' title?/world revolves around USA mentality etc etc.

But, this problem IMO no where affects NZ to the same degree as the USA. And as the above posts portray, neither do the rallies held on NZ soil.
Their opinions of:
Lets not have any leadership!
Lets rebel cause we can!
Lets speak up for something that we haven't earned!
Lets speak up because we want other people to pay for and be responsible for our lives!
..Is pure selfishness.

(Outside of America) this movement describes a want for a perfect world, but fails to lay a road map. FAIL!

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  # 533781 15-Oct-2011 17:54
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I am not a "protest" type person, but I am still moved by those whom will get off their butts and say "this aint good enogh"

This type of thing is only going to get bigger globally, that's the sad part. Sad from the point that things have gotten that bad.

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  # 533783 15-Oct-2011 17:58
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I saw a bunch of them marching up Riccarton Rd in Christchurch, probably 100 or so, at a guess. Looking at the signs I couldn't really tell what their demands or grievances were. I'm sure there's some legitimate concerns there... somewhere. Whatever they are, I doubt they can be addressed fully with a sign and a couple of guitars. 




My very metal Doctor Who theme

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  # 533784 15-Oct-2011 17:59
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If it was about the rampant and legal endorsed racism here (and I didn't have finals in 2 weeks) then yes I might be tempted to go along.

Maybe if it was about pump and dump price inflation (particularly on video games).

However the economy here is satisfactory to me. 




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  # 533787 15-Oct-2011 18:11
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OP, what do you want to change?

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  # 533792 15-Oct-2011 18:45
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Let me see: oppressed population, dictatorial regime in power for 30 odd years, no elections, no women rights, high unemployment rate.

Yep, it seems Egypt has changed its government already. But wait. The new government is actually not better.

Surprise!

In other news, people with good lives are complaining they can't drink beer on the deck when it's raining...

My point is, some people complain for complaining. They are nowhere near the really bad stuff. Sure there are lots of bad things in good places, but without clear leadership, planning and a decent message informing people what are the objectives, it might as well be a joke.






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  # 533797 15-Oct-2011 18:56
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codyc1515: OP, what do you want to change?


Essentially, I want to see a change to the mentality that allows things like this to be on the cards.

True, the sentiments and arguments in the article are purely theoretical, and have not yet happened this time round, but it scares me to no end that this is probably what's going to happen if a certain party is allowed to take the reigns again.

I don't at all profess to have a silver bullet solution to anything, but the stimulation of discussion can only be a good thing.

I actually firmly believe in taking personal responsibility in one's life. In fact, I also believe the only real positive change comes from the resolve of an individual to make changes that benefit both the individual, and society at large.

freitasm: [snip] ...without clear leadership, planning and a decent message informing people what are the objectives, it might as well be a joke.


I suspect you've hit the nail on the head there. The way that things have just been "thrown together" are, unfortunately, making the whole situation look a bit comical.

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  # 533803 15-Oct-2011 19:02
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dontpanic42:
codyc1515: OP, what do you want to change?


Essentially, I want to see a change to the mentality that allows things like this to be on the cards.

True, the sentiments and arguments in the article are purely theoretical, and have not yet happened this time round, but it scares me to no end that this is probably what's going to happen if a certain party is allowed to take the reigns again.

If you don't want them getting back in again, start your own party: its not hard!
Not really much point though, I doubt we will ever see any party other than National or Labour in...



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  # 533806 15-Oct-2011 19:15
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codyc1515:
dontpanic42:
codyc1515: OP, what do you want to change?


Essentially, I want to see a change to the mentality that allows things like this to be on the cards.

True, the sentiments and arguments in the article are purely theoretical, and have not yet happened this time round, but it scares me to no end that this is probably what's going to happen if a certain party is allowed to take the reigns again.


If you don't want them getting back in again, start your own party: its not hard!
Not really much point though, I doubt we will ever see any party other than National or Labour in...


There's no need for me to start my own party, there are already parties that support my views that I will vote for.

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  # 533896 16-Oct-2011 08:39
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I think the whole "movement" is a joke. No leadership, no defined issues (instead a whole gamut of things) and absolutely no idea of alternatives.

A bunch of placards from Occupy Wall Street can be viewed here - to me they display the ridiculous chaos that this protest is. This one in particular sums it up nicely!

I'm so angry

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  # 533903 16-Oct-2011 09:00
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freitasm: Let me see: oppressed population, dictatorial regime in power for 30 odd years, no elections, no women rights, high unemployment rate.

Yep, it seems Egypt has changed its government already. But wait. The new government is actually not better.

Surprise!

In other news, people with good lives are complaining they can't drink beer on the deck when it's raining...

My point is, some people complain for complaining. They are nowhere near the really bad stuff.
 

Just because things could be worse does not mean that people should not try to make things better.

In the US where the protests started inequality has reached high levels and the state is an ineffective Plutocracy.

The protests have had the effect that people are talking about the issues they highlight which is a good thing. True in NZ things are not as bad as the US, but that does not mean they couldn't become that way.

The National Party still clings to many neo-liberal ideas which have proven disastrous in many countries.

but without clear leadership, planning and a decent message informing people what are the objectives, it might as well be a joke.

Actually this sounds rather like the Internet - don't get trapped by the idea that for a movement to be effective it has to follow existing institutionalized power structures. We live in interesting times and interesting things can happen.




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  # 533904 16-Oct-2011 09:03
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I know "just because things are good we should't stop aiming for better". I was generalising.

As for comparing the movement with the Internet... Sorry, but they are different beasts. The Internet is ruled by a set of agreed protocols and that's why it works. It doesn't look like this movement even has protocols in place.

One thing is no central management but following rules (RFCs and such) and no central management and not having any rules (anarchy).




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