Cloudmelon:

KissySellOut:
Email me if you want to debate this properly :P

KissySellOut

What was it you were doing up till now then? 

Wade: If Government don't step in and bail out their respective economies surely this would lead to the demise of much business, business whose ripples effect many other nations. If the EU and USA economies die then NZ would die too as we generate wealth by exporting which requires international buyers

By my logic, lack of bailout puts other "innocent" nations at financial risk, why would we want to prevent governments doing the right thing globally?

listudio:

Wade: If Government don't step in and bail out their respective economies surely this would lead to the demise of much business, business whose ripples effect many other nations. If the EU and USA economies die then NZ would die too as we generate wealth by exporting which requires international buyers

By my logic, lack of bailout puts other "innocent" nations at financial risk, why would we want to prevent governments doing the right thing globally?

US government has to do bailout, at same time they have to print a lot of money causing the inflation which still affects domestic and international economy badly. No matter bail out or not, it is the working class people pay the debts and bills. Because bailout is not a good solution, that why people shouting for a change.
  

Wade: But how do the working class pay their debts or taxes if the compnay they work for goes belly up because it wasn't bailed out?

I think i would (begrudgingly) pay additional tax to secure my employment?

Ragnor: They way it should have been handled is that private financial companies taking massive risks should have failed with the owners & investors losing their money.

What we have now in the US and Europe is zombie banks, investors/owners/top tier workers making out like bandits still taking massive risks with the public footing the bill for the losses, private profits, public losses. That's outrageous and untenable.

Also some guys ruining the grass in Wellington will have no effect whatsoever on fixing this problem.

Wade: But how do the working class pay their debts or taxes if the compnay they work for goes belly up because it wasn't bailed out? 

gzt: 
Maybe, maybe not. The disruption would have been massive with many many cascading failures. You would have seen probably far more job losses and far more marching in the streets with that scenario. The bailout was a pragmatic alternative to that.

listudio:

Wade: But how do the working class pay their debts or taxes if the compnay they work for goes belly up because it wasn't bailed out? 

The government doesn’t have $ to bail out the companies, so the US government is very clever, they find the easiest way to get $ is to print money (pls do not copy this with real action). Money itself only has the paper value. For example, 100 bucks note  is actual a piece of paper. Money is an exchange tool to help people exchanging the products they produce. So money is a tool helping the programmers here (for example) to get their daily bread and prevent them from starving to death.  But if money print is not based on the actual production it would cause the money depreciation, which means the programmers here may pay more money for their bread. But bread is still affordable for them not like the low income class people, if things are getting serious, all prices of the living necessity would be going up which would affects poor people and families severely.  That is why working class people eventually pay the bills of the bail out.
   

Ragnor: South Canterbury Finance (SCF) was welfare for the South Island, it should have never been in the retail deposit scheme and breached the conditions numerous times and wasn't kicked out.

listudio: Wade, I misread your question.If the companies didn’t get the bailout and going bankruptcy, it would cause high rate of unemployment, and more people live on the social benefits, also would have more social disturbance. Still  its working people (tax payers) pay the price.

gzt:

listudio: Wade, I misread your question.If the companies didn’t get the bailout and going bankruptcy, it would cause high rate of unemployment, and more people live on the social benefits, also would have more social disturbance. Still  its working people (tax payers) pay the price.

From what I have read on the monetary side, the US Govt has fully got it's money back. On the non-monetary side there were a lot of job losses etc.

In NZ the situation is a bit different. Most of the companies bailed were nowhere near the top of the system, and on the monetary side the Government is not getting back all of the money.

listudio:

What we have now in the US and Europe is zombie banks, investors/owners/top tier workers making out like bandits still taking massive risks with the public footing the bill for the losses, private profits, public losses. That's outrageous and untenable.

Also some guys ruining the grass in Wellington will have no effect whatsoever on fixing this problem.

I guess that NZ protest is a part of US Occupy’s plan, may be not initiated by the locals. 

If there was no one protesting on the street or 'ruining' the grass, we wouldn't discuss the issues here, and people wouldn't take notices of these big issues. I personally don't believe that the Occupy can actually help with any practical solutions with those problems. It s about making 'noises' and passing on the messages to the public. But people seem focus more on individuals than the ideas.

KissySellOut:

listudio:

What we have now in the US and Europe is zombie banks, investors/owners/top tier workers making out like bandits still taking massive risks with the public footing the bill for the losses, private profits, public losses. That's outrageous and untenable.

Also some guys ruining the grass in Wellington will have no effect whatsoever on fixing this problem.

I guess that NZ protest is a part of US Occupy’s plan, may be not initiated by the locals. 

If there was no one protesting on the street or 'ruining' the grass, we wouldn't discuss the issues here, and people wouldn't take notices of these big issues. I personally don't believe that the Occupy can actually help with any practical solutions with those problems. It s about making 'noises' and passing on the messages to the public. But people seem focus more on individuals than the ideas.

I really don't think many people are focusing more on individuals here, what's being discussed is largely the cause for Occupy and peoples opinions thereof, not who's in it. Oh and by the way, my bank just cut another 3,500 jobs - how exactly is bailing out an affective solution when it essentially gives failing businesses false hope? There has to be numerous other (and better) ways around this. Throwing money at them is like giving a few blown up balloons to a sinking ship and its crew. Nice gesture, but doesn't stop the fact that the ship is still sinking.

KissySellOut