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CruciasNZ
765 posts

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  #534641 18-Oct-2011 12:01
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Keep the existing flag but instead of stars put a fern on it




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TheUngeek
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  #534661 18-Oct-2011 12:37
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jjnz1:
TheUngeek: And I disagree with that.


Yes, its not nice to have something push upon you, BUT you do live in Aotearoa. Kinda the same analogy as 'I live in Canada, but really don't like having the French language pushed on me, why is it everywhere?'

Have you though about the bigger picture (other than yourself) of not promoting/endorsing the Maori culture?

If we omit the culture from everyday NZ things like the Haka, anthem, place names, our people, then we will lose our individuality from the rest of the world, including the loss of our history. 

NZ is well know in WW1 for its Maori division and their heroic hand to hand combat warfare,  it sounds like you are denying NZ this accomplishment (and others).

If we listening and followed your lead, we may well end up loosing our NZ heritage, as well as denying future Maori and NZ kids the right to know how our beautiful country came to be. 
 


I didn't say any of that.
I have nothing against maori culture. It's just not my culture.
The haka is polluted. The haka = rugby NOT NZ


 

 
 
 
 


wmoore
510 posts

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  #534663 18-Oct-2011 12:44
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jjnz1:
TheUngeek: I would burn any silverfern "flag" with out hesitation.
We have a flag, why change it? It is our flag.
If anything we need to change our anthem from the mish mashed dual language farcical funeral dirge it is


Ouch! Do you not like the Maori version or the English version? Do you realise we have a rare anthem that is based upon an old prayer unlike most other countries that blatantly state "We are gods, all others bow to us! We are so great etc etc" 
The NZ anthem is very modest. You should be proud. 

wmoore:
If I had to change it I would just replace the stars with a silver fern and no other changes. 


+1 Maybe change the background to black? 


No leave the background blue. what does the black really represent apart from the all blacks. 




"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -
  --  Abraham lincoln

BerG
61 posts

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  #534665 18-Oct-2011 12:48
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Yes I'm sure Maori invented the haka with rugby in mind.

TheUngeek
924 posts

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  #534666 18-Oct-2011 12:49
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Its not what it was invented for, Its what it has become.

sleemanj
1345 posts

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  #534675 18-Oct-2011 13:06
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Flag change: yes - it's too bland, too indistinguishable, too... meh.  Something unique, something bold, something high contrast, something that says "hey, NZ is here".  
  
Silver fern: no... I mean, I like it, but I don't like that the NZRU has it, and, well, a fern, not that unique.  I would prefer a shillouete of a kiwi on a black background.

Anthem change (GDNZ): maybe - but only because of the religious connection, the spirit behind (and indeed the majority of the lyrics) are wonderfully strong projections of the core values that New Zealand has or that we would hope it to have, that we welcome people from everywhere, that we ultimately want peace not war, but that in the event we have to fight, we want to be doing so for really good causes, and hope our enemies turn tail when they see us come - I think these are all really amazing proud things to put in your anthem, and we have them all.  It's just a shame about the whole godly thing, but that's just a small matter and not worth getting too worked up about IMHO.  A bit of tweaking maybe, I think somebody attempted that a year or two back.

Anthem change (GSTQ - remember NZ has 2 anthems): well this fundamentally goes to the issue of retaining a monarchy.  And I say we don't need a monarchy, but it doesn't really make any difference in the scheme of things and isn't worth putting much debate or thought into really.






---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


Ramboss
202 posts

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  #534697 18-Oct-2011 13:46
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I do love the silver fern flag over our current one, but in saying that there is nothing wrong with the current flag. Knowing this countries government, the costs of even thinking of changing the flag would be just to high let a lone if they do change it the costs would be great. Not just to government, but all licences, passports would have to change at our cost and many things i cant even think of. I think all those millions would be better spent on things such as health, education and police then to have a pretty new flag

 
 
 
 


jonb
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  #534702 18-Oct-2011 13:57
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The current flag is pretty much indistinguishible from Australia, at least for non-NZers who don't see it everyday.

I'm not sure about the Silver Fern though - I used to love drawing flags when I was younger, and that one would've been a nightmare - like Mexico's or Fiji. If you can't draw a from memory I would class that as a bad design.

gzt

gzt
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  #534705 18-Oct-2011 14:03
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jjnz1: Now, why on Earth would people ask the following question?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_New_Zealand_a_part_of_Australia

Australia will probably declare itself a republic first and change their flag which will reduce the occurance of this kind of misunderstanding.

If we became a republic first, that would be cool - because many people overseas would think we had declared independence from Australia. Laughing

ScottStevensNZ
245 posts

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  #534747 18-Oct-2011 15:14
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TheUngeek:
jjnz1:
TheUngeek: And I disagree with that.


Yes, its not nice to have something push upon you, BUT you do live in Aotearoa. Kinda the same analogy as 'I live in Canada, but really don't like having the French language pushed on me, why is it everywhere?'

Have you though about the bigger picture (other than yourself) of not promoting/endorsing the Maori culture?

If we omit the culture from everyday NZ things like the Haka, anthem, place names, our people, then we will lose our individuality from the rest of the world, including the loss of our history. 

NZ is well know in WW1 for its Maori division and their heroic hand to hand combat warfare,  it sounds like you are denying NZ this accomplishment (and others).

If we listening and followed your lead, we may well end up loosing our NZ heritage, as well as denying future Maori and NZ kids the right to know how our beautiful country came to be. 
 


I didn't say any of that.
I have nothing against maori culture. It's just not my culture.
The haka is polluted. The haka = rugby NOT NZ


 


That would be WWII in Africa against Rommel.




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MikeyPI
450 posts

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  #534876 18-Oct-2011 18:14
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ScottStevensNZ: 
That would be WWII in Africa against Rommel.


** Sigh**

The Native Contingent prior to WW1 and including parts of WW1, then the New Zealand Pioneer Battalion commonly known as the Pioneer Maori Battalion. 

Im not even Maori and I know this. Please dont respect the sacrifices those guys made just to be considered equal. A little research goes a long way... 

Chambers
22 posts

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  #534912 18-Oct-2011 19:29
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TheUngeek:
jjnz1:
TheUngeek: And I disagree with that.


Yes, its not nice to have something push upon you, BUT you do live in Aotearoa. Kinda the same analogy as 'I live in Canada, but really don't like having the French language pushed on me, why is it everywhere?'

Have you though about the bigger picture (other than yourself) of not promoting/endorsing the Maori culture?

If we omit the culture from everyday NZ things like the Haka, anthem, place names, our people, then we will lose our individuality from the rest of the world, including the loss of our history. 

NZ is well know in WW1 for its Maori division and their heroic hand to hand combat warfare,  it sounds like you are denying NZ this accomplishment (and others).

If we listening and followed your lead, we may well end up loosing our NZ heritage, as well as denying future Maori and NZ kids the right to know how our beautiful country came to be. 
 


I didn't say any of that.
I have nothing against maori culture. It's just not my culture.
The haka is polluted. The haka = rugby NOT NZ


 


What is your culture?

While we are at it, what do you think NZ culture is?

TheUngeek
924 posts

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  #534916 18-Oct-2011 19:42
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I'm a New Zealander

New Zealand culture is not much actually lol.
But it's not maori culture. That is thiers, and while they should be free to preserve it, It is not NZ's culture.

Chambers
22 posts

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  #534932 18-Oct-2011 20:20
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TheUngeek: I'm a New Zealander

New Zealand culture is not much actually lol.
But it's not maori culture. That is thiers, and while they should be free to preserve it, It is not NZ's culture.


New Zealand does have quite a bit of culture, but not a lot of unique culture, most of our culture comes from overseas the unique part comes from the Maori culture and customs e.g. the haka.

 If you have ever lived in London or overseas, and hang around with a lot of kiwis you will find that they wear Greenstone, bone carvings, tribal tattoos, New Zealand tee shirts. This helps make you feel unique in that part of the world. It gives you a sense of pride and place.

 On Waitangi day in London it is celebrated rather than protested. 10000 kiwis get very drunk (a part of our culture that we have inherited of the British lol) march to the parliament sq for the 2pm mass haka in front of parliament. This has nothing to do with rugby but more of a celebration of who we are as New Zealanders.

I think the flag should reflect the uniqueness of New Zealand as opposed to the past transgressions and reflect a bit of all major peoples.

You do not have to believe in Maori Culture or become Maori, but just enjoy the bits that make us who we are.

Edit: Parliament sq not trafalger

oxnsox
1923 posts

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  #534991 18-Oct-2011 22:51
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No point in trying to change our flag right now...everyone has black on their minds.

We'd be better off to convince Oz to change theirs. A Holden logo should do it. Problem solved.

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