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bazzer
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  #542391 8-Nov-2011 09:46
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Zeon: But seriously, what idiot buys fruit and veges from the supermarket anyway. Fresh grocer or side of the road stalls often have great deals that I guarantee are more than 15% cheaper than the supermarket.

You guarantee it? Are you going to give me 15% of the difference or something like that?

SaltyNZ
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  #542520 8-Nov-2011 12:41
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bazzer:
Haven't you heard of margin lending?


I have, and it stung me. Fortunately, I only invested money I could 'afford' to lose. Still, I'd be at least $5K better off today than if I hadn't done it.

Ah, the good ol' days: high paying job travelling the world, before girlfriend & kids.

//Wouldn't go back to that for even more money...




iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 
 


oxnsox
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  #542552 8-Nov-2011 13:15
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The benefit of the NZ GST system is that it is flat over everything.
Which means its cheaper to administer. In fact most of the compliance costs are borne by the traders; rather than the Government.
Start changing whats in and whats out and the compliance costs go up, mostly on the Government side.... And who pays for that??? (So it's costing them more to collect less.)
But hey they'll make it all up somewhere else..........

And lets not forget that since all these low paid folk will also get a payrise to $15hr under labour that prices will probably go up on more on things like freshies (fruit and veg) because there is more labour that goes into the raw products (percentage wise) than value added ones.

So the Net result would probably be no change in price. And as most have said it won't make people buy more.

Didn't some European country recently talk about or implement a 'fat-tax'. Extra tax ox fast and fatty foods.

Zeon
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  #542562 8-Nov-2011 13:24
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OK my local Countdown may cost $1 for an avocado, I walk maybe 300m to the local Tai Ping and I get 3 for $1.00. or I walk IN THE SAME mall to the grocer and maybe 2 for $1.00. OK It's not that clear cut but I would estimate prices are around 25-50% cheaper for fresh fruit and veges. The time overhead may be about 10minutes for me although i can appreciate that not everyone lives close to a good fresh fruit and vege grocer.




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nakedmolerat
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  #542583 8-Nov-2011 13:55
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johnr: Interest free student loans is BS teaching them nothing!! I paid back my student loan with interest.


this if off topic! :-P





bazzer
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  #542683 8-Nov-2011 16:09
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SaltyNZ:
bazzer:
Haven't you heard of margin lending?


I have, and it stung me. Fortunately, I only invested money I could 'afford' to lose. Still, I'd be at least $5K better off today than if I hadn't done it.

Ah, the good ol' days: high paying job travelling the world, before girlfriend & kids.

//Wouldn't go back to that for even more money...

Of course, if it was easy/risk-free, everyone would do it! :)

Byrned

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  #542711 8-Nov-2011 17:14
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bazzer:
SaltyNZ:
bazzer:
Haven't you heard of margin lending?


I have, and it stung me. Fortunately, I only invested money I could 'afford' to lose. Still, I'd be at least $5K better off today than if I hadn't done it.

Ah, the good ol' days: high paying job travelling the world, before girlfriend & kids.

//Wouldn't go back to that for even more money...

Of course, if it was easy/risk-free, everyone would do it! :)


So are you in favor of the government borrowing money and then investing it? Even though since inception it has made an annulaised return of just over 6%. Seems like a lot of risk to take on borrowing. Why don't we just let the government borrow the money, take it to the casino and put it all on black! 

 
 
 
 


bazzer
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  #542743 8-Nov-2011 18:23
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Byrned:
bazzer:
SaltyNZ:
bazzer:
Haven't you heard of margin lending?


I have, and it stung me. Fortunately, I only invested money I could 'afford' to lose. Still, I'd be at least $5K better off today than if I hadn't done it.

Ah, the good ol' days: high paying job travelling the world, before girlfriend & kids.

//Wouldn't go back to that for even more money...

Of course, if it was easy/risk-free, everyone would do it! :)


So are you in favor of the government borrowing money and then investing it? Even though since inception it has made an annulaised return of just over 6%. Seems like a lot of risk to take on borrowing. Why don't we just let the government borrow the money, take it to the casino and put it all on black! 

I am neither for nor against it, I'm just saying it's a legitimate investment strategy. A lot would depend on the cost of borrowing etc.

MikeyPI
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  #542776 8-Nov-2011 19:36
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SaltyNZ: Personally, rather than try to decide what stuff should be GST exempt, I think you should do the opposite: make crap food more expensive. Seems pretty unequivocal that McD's is unhealthy: why not make it 50% taxed instead of 15%?


+1 to this..

I like the premise behind the original idea, but have no faith that corporates would pass any savings on whatsoever.

Just another nice sound bite for Labour...  

foods with a higher % of transfat / added sugar / salt / corn syrup should be taxed at a higher rate. While your at it bang up the tax on cigs & alcohol again too.
Luxuries are the best way too increase a little tax revenue, and we clearly need more...  

jonherries
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  #542785 8-Nov-2011 19:49
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Charging a fat tax is just as hard as the GST issue.

What percentage or fat? Is all fat treated the same? Is prepackaged fat worse than fresh fat? What about sugar? Coke doesn't have fat in it? Avocados have lots of fat but are good for you.

The answer isn't easy to this, but maybe the cheapest way to solve this issue is health literacy courses. The government does not invest anything in this at the moment, despite a recent report showing we have poorer taverage rage healthknowledge in this country (Korero Marama - MoH 2010).

Jon

TheUngeek
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  #542789 8-Nov-2011 19:55
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Yeah just as hard. Maybe even harder but you will probably make more doing it and it can only have a better effect.

SaltyNZ
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  #542810 8-Nov-2011 20:24
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TheUngeek: Yeah just as hard. Maybe even harder but you will probably make more doing it and it can only have a better effect.


I don't think it's that hard. Hands up anyone who believes McDonalds is healthy?
KFC?
Pizza Hut?
Fish & Chips?

...[Crickets]...

Yeah, I didn't think so. The issue is not with the foods that are borderline. Is the local curry house healthy or not? Could go either way depending on what you order, I guess. But the people we are worried about don't buy curry once a fortnight. They buy McDonalds or fish & chips for dinner every night. So tax the obvious ones, and don't bother with the ones where it's line ball. Simple.

Annoyed by the fat tax? Make your own hamburgers, pizzas, whatever. We make our own pizzas once every few months. They far are healthier and better tasting than [insert chain pizza place here]. And don't tell me you don't have time. I get up at 5:30 every morning, and the kids aren't finally in bed till somewhere between 7:45 and 8:00, and either myself or my wife manages to cook dinner and read to the kids (or have school age son read to us).




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


oxnsox
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  #542825 8-Nov-2011 20:35
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The true test will be in whether the Fat-Tax (which Denmark is the first country to implement I believe) actually has any effect on consumption.

In reality it offers up the same arguements as smoking. Increased tax on tar-bars can be argued to reduce consumption but also increase the funds available for medical care that smokers will use... a user pays arguement.

Did putting up the Tax on fags stop the low wage earners smoking??? or did it stop more starting????

We're always looking for a 'quick-fix'. One that shows its working within a tradional parlimentry term. But realisiticly these types of negative incentive taxes seem to take a long time to flow thru.

If a simple fat-tax was that simple we would have solved all our political issues eons ago.

MikeyPI
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  #542828 8-Nov-2011 20:39
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jonherries: Charging a fat tax is just as hard as the GST issue.

What percentage or fat? Is all fat treated the same? Is prepackaged fat worse than fresh fat? What about sugar? Coke doesn't have fat in it? Avocados have lots of fat but are good for you.

The answer isn't easy to this, but maybe the cheapest way to solve this issue is health literacy courses. The government does not invest anything in this at the moment, despite a recent report showing we have poorer taverage rage healthknowledge in this country (Korero Marama - MoH 2010).

Jon


Nope just as a previous poster pointed out, we already have one, its called excise.. Just as spirits & wines have limits, you could very easily add one exactly what I put, a certain % off added sugar/ corn syurp/ salt / transfat.

Im sure you could do it and leave those raw ingredients themselves not taxed.    

MikeyPI
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  #542829 8-Nov-2011 20:41
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oxnsox: The true test will be in whether the Fat-Tax (which Denmark is the first country to implement I believe) actually has any effect on consumption.

In reality it offers up the same arguements as smoking. Increased tax on tar-bars can be argued to reduce consumption but also increase the funds available for medical care that smokers will use... a user pays arguement.

Did putting up the Tax on fags stop the low wage earners smoking??? or did it stop more starting????

We're always looking for a 'quick-fix'. One that shows its working within a tradional parlimentry term. But realisiticly these types of negative incentive taxes seem to take a long time to flow thru.

If a simple fat-tax was that simple we would have solved all our political issues eons ago.


The price increase & well advertised campaign, has driven a big decline in smokers both current & new.  

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