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836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 46384 18-Sep-2006 15:57
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Old Grey Geek:
Bung: Only analogue on the local copper, for last 20 years most exchanges and trunks between exchanges in NZ have been digital. But we all knew this :-)




I think we were talking about local calls



Fractul: Also the speed of light, the speed of any electromagnetic propogation, varies substantially by medium.




"The speed of a charged particle in copper is very slow: about 0.01 cm/s.

At this rate, it takes about 3 hours for a charge to travel about one

meter. The electric field (signal) travels at the speed of light through

copper. The charge is not carrying the information, per se, but the

information is transmitted by the electric field. It is like a molecule of

water does not travel across the ocean, but the wave does."

from: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99488.htm



But then there are arguments about this as there is about everything it seems.


Good thing I said the speed of light/electromagnetic propogation then I guess huh?


Fractul: Regarding the digital tv, thats because it goes through another encoding process true but also involves usually several intermediate transmission points and the extra distance involved. If your analog signal had to propogate down a very wiggley wire for up to space for satellite transmission instead of the straight parth transmission from a terrestrial transmitter you would be able to measure the extra latency also.




What I meant was; 2 TV's in one room, same, analogue, signal. The delay you will notice, in the audio, is soley due to the DSP. And, the losses on your wiggley wire would be so much you would be waiting till way past bedtime before you gave up.



So there NAH x 5

;-)


Yes that should read "OR up to space" obviously coper has nowhere near the tensile strength required for a cable up to geo stationary orbit.. I stand by my comment that the majority of the delay is taken up by the extra transmission distance and having to transverse more switching equipment, not in DSP delays.

140 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 46451 19-Sep-2006 10:04
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Fractul: I stand by my comment that the majority of the delay is taken up by the extra transmission distance and having to transverse more switching equipment, not in DSP delays.


If both TVs are in the same room with the same, analogue, signal where does the "extra transmission disance" come from?

836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 46453 19-Sep-2006 10:45
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Old Grey Geek:

Local calls on POTS (plain old telephone system) are analogue so they "travel" at close to the speed of light where as any digital network, be it mobile or VOIP, is encoded then decoded (hence CODEC) and is delayed by system clocks, wait times, interleaving and many other network delays, latency.

You will notice this if you compare a digital TV next to an analogue TV showing the same station or even the audio out signal from a digital TV compared to the TV speaker.

I thought we all knew this stuff?


My point is most of this is the extra transmission distance involved.

Old Grey Geek:

What I meant was; 2 TV's in one room, same, analogue, signal. The delay you will notice, in the audio, is soley due to the DSP. And, the losses on your wiggley wire would be so much you would be waiting till way past bedtime before you gave up.



Right so a DSP is applied to the audio and not the picture? The whole thing is analog.

The delay you will notice, if anything, is due to the fact sound travels slower than light in air. Thats why most high end home theater systems allow you to set delays in each speaker output dependent on its distance from you.

216 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 46468 19-Sep-2006 13:23
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jpwise: Yeah, I was debating mentioning UHF vs cable/sky, but hadn't edited it yet.

Lol, what I'd give for a 9ms ping in a game a quake.. I normally play with a ~69ms ping on quake, and you can feel the difference to within 15ms or so generally for gameplay.    Slight OT, but yeah. :)

Jp.


on tcl cable i get pings between 10 and 30 playing quake on the Xtra servers... same as DoD




Mobile devices and more

140 posts

Master Geek


Reply # 46474 19-Sep-2006 16:43
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Fractul: Right so a DSP is applied to the audio and not the picture? The whole thing is analog.

The delay you will notice, if anything, is due to the fact sound travels slower than light in air. Thats why most high end home theater systems allow you to set delays in each speaker output dependent on its distance from you.


Of course you know what I mean better than I do, I only speak from personal experience. I bow to your superior wisdom.

836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Reply # 46477 19-Sep-2006 16:49
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Either that or your just not explaining yourself very well.

140 posts

Master Geek


Reply # 46480 19-Sep-2006 16:54
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Fraktul: Either that or your just not explaining yourself very well.


Either that or your just not reading very well

836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 46481 19-Sep-2006 17:01
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Or comprehending even!

140 posts

Master Geek


Reply # 46482 19-Sep-2006 17:10
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Oh well, never mind eh? It must be beer o'clock by now

836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 46484 19-Sep-2006 17:17
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Too true, beer to mouth latency is one thing you can always count on being low.

140 posts

Master Geek


Reply # 46485 19-Sep-2006 17:22
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Too true.
Galbraiths Alehouse, 1 Mt. Eden Rd, Auck. Bellringers Bitter, best beer in NZ.
Now, let's not argue about that ;-)

836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 46486 19-Sep-2006 17:25
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Thats my local actually! The Grafton Porter and ESB are not bad either, pity its usually so crowded at lunch.

140 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 46487 19-Sep-2006 17:39
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Fraktul: Thats my local actually! The Grafton Porter and ESB are not bad either, pity its usually so crowded at lunch.


ESB? You must mean Bitter & Twisted, bad reading again?
I'll be out the back tomorrow after work, I'll get the fire going. Let's see if you can guess who I am.

Mods, Beer is never off topic. ;-)

836 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 46488 19-Sep-2006 17:46
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ESB=Extra Special Bitter, unless I have been imagining beers again (not out of the realm of possibility).

I dont usully get to go until Friday lunch or after work unfortunately due to the anti-social number of hours I'm currently at work.

140 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 46489 19-Sep-2006 17:56
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Fraktul: ESB=Extra Special Bitter, unless I have been imagining beers again (not out of the realm of possibility).


Hmmmm.
Yes I think at one time Keith did do an ESB but that was many a moon back. I have a feeling that this is what is now calles Bitter & Twisted.

Fractul: I dont usully get to go until Friday lunch or after work unfortunately due to the anti-social number of hours I'm currently at work.


Poor chap, cube farm? still, get plenty of time to read posts ;-)

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