Recommended espresso machine?

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# 810123 2-May-2013 13:19

lchiu7: But for some reason no matter what size grind I use or what beans, the coffee comes out with lots of crema - much more than I see from commercial machines.

This might be typical behaviour from inexpensive machines with dual-wall (aka "pressurised") portafilter baskets:
http://www.espressoschool.com.au/about/faq/28-basics/13-unpressurised

mrphil

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# 810125 2-May-2013 13:23

Anyone here use the nespresso lattissima en520? Thinking to get one since they are offering a $75 cash back

Also How much discount would a retailer normally give on this machines?

Fred99

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# 810127 2-May-2013 13:27

Sancho:
Fred99:
The smell of coffee being ground more than offsets the inconvenience to me.

Amen to that! :)

It surprises me that Nestle haven't come up with a solution to this problem. They could have included a "scratchy" perfume dispenser (like perfume testers in fashion magazines) from which one could release a quantity of synthetic "coffee grind" odour, to further advance the illusion that one is getting the real deal.

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# 810154 2-May-2013 14:01

Edwood:
freitasm: Press the button to start and keep it pressed until you reach the time or volume you want. Release the button. Done. The machine will forever do the same time/amount each time the button is pressed.

Wow, I wonder if the "U" will do that... I might shorten the espresso shot a little to see if I can reduce the bitter aftertaste. Thats a cool feature.

Yes, it does.

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# 810170 2-May-2013 14:17

Fred99:
lchiu7: But for some reason no matter what size grind I use or what beans, the coffee comes out with lots of crema - much more than I see from commercial machines.

This might be typical behaviour from inexpensive machines with dual-wall (aka "pressurised") portafilter baskets:
http://www.espressoschool.com.au/about/faq/28-basics/13-unpressurised

probably it. Now trying to locate a replacement filter basket which is non-pressurised.

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# 810373 2-May-2013 17:57

mrphil: Anyone here use the nespresso lattissima en520? Thinking to get one since they are offering a $75 cash back

Also How much discount would a retailer normally give on this machines?

I haven't really used it, but this is the machine that the 'bartender' at the Nespresso showroom uses.
(I had them use the Nespresso U for me, but the one they use for everyone else is the en520)

If you're using it in a small office or making for a few people at once this would be worthwhile.
It also made a much hotter beverage than the Nespresso U + Airheadcino milk frother

I don't know about discounts, but as I said earlier - check warranty info when price hunting. I couldn't get Nespresso to reduce their price on the U any more, but it does seem that they are selling it at the lowest price point of anyone anyway.

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# 810383 2-May-2013 18:26

lchiu7:
Fred99:
lchiu7: But for some reason no matter what size grind I use or what beans, the coffee comes out with lots of crema - much more than I see from commercial machines.

This might be typical behaviour from inexpensive machines with dual-wall (aka "pressurised") portafilter baskets:
http://www.espressoschool.com.au/about/faq/28-basics/13-unpressurised

probably it. Now trying to locate a replacement filter basket which is non-pressurised.

Why cant you just drill the single hole larger to prevent the pressure difference and therefore it being pressurized?

Richard rich.ms

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# 810424 2-May-2013 19:32

richms:
lchiu7:
Fred99:
lchiu7: But for some reason no matter what size grind I use or what beans, the coffee comes out with lots of crema - much more than I see from commercial machines.

This might be typical behaviour from inexpensive machines with dual-wall (aka "pressurised") portafilter baskets:
http://www.espressoschool.com.au/about/faq/28-basics/13-unpressurised

probably it. Now trying to locate a replacement filter basket which is non-pressurised.

Why cant you just drill the single hole larger to prevent the pressure difference and therefore it being pressurized?

You can, but its pretty difficult: there are two metal layers against each other, and you need to enlarge the hole on only one of them. Even the curvature of the typical twist drill bit is often greater than the thickness of the material. If you go too far, then the grinds come straight through - makes for a rather gritty coffee.

So much easier to buy this pre made (suits Breville & Sunbeam)

Regs

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# 810435 2-May-2013 19:49

i'm going to get a new portafilter for my saeco via venezia - my pressurised one is broken, and i didnt like it enough anyway.

this place does pressurised and non, and also 'bottomless'. havent decided if i'll try bottomless yet...
http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=portafilter

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lchiu7

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# 810465 2-May-2013 20:31

nickb800:
richms:
lchiu7:
Fred99:
lchiu7: But for some reason no matter what size grind I use or what beans, the coffee comes out with lots of crema - much more than I see from commercial machines.

This might be typical behaviour from inexpensive machines with dual-wall (aka "pressurised") portafilter baskets:
http://www.espressoschool.com.au/about/faq/28-basics/13-unpressurised

probably it. Now trying to locate a replacement filter basket which is non-pressurised.

Why cant you just drill the single hole larger to prevent the pressure difference and therefore it being pressurized?

You can, but its pretty difficult: there are two metal layers against each other, and you need to enlarge the hole on only one of them. Even the curvature of the typical twist drill bit is often greater than the thickness of the material. If you go too far, then the grinds come straight through - makes for a rather gritty coffee.

So much easier to buy this pre made (suits Breville & Sunbeam)

Doesn't seem compatible with my Delonghi based on their list.

I looked at my filter holder. There are two layers, one which has the holes in it and it's surrounded by a rubber gasket and sits on top of a plastic piece which has a smaller piece sttached to it (aboyt 1cm in diameter).

I just could not see how the coffee could go through the metal grill and then through the plastic layer which does not appear to have any holes in it at all (well I could not see them).

This apparently would work but it's out of stock.

http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/non-pressurized-basket-upgrade-for-breville-delonghi-espresso-machines

So I have punted and purchased this item from Amazon. Hope it's 51mm else it's going on Trademe!

http://www.amazon.com/Delonghi-606348-Filter-2-Dose/dp/B0006GC8GW/ref=rec_dp_0

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mrphil

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# 810466 2-May-2013 20:48

Edwood:
mrphil: Anyone here use the nespresso lattissima en520? Thinking to get one since they are offering a $75 cash back

Also How much discount would a retailer normally give on this machines?

I haven't really used it, but this is the machine that the 'bartender' at the Nespresso showroom uses.
(I had them use the Nespresso U for me, but the one they use for everyone else is the en520)

If you're using it in a small office or making for a few people at once this would be worthwhile.
It also made a much hotter beverage than the Nespresso U + Airheadcino milk frother

I don't know about discounts, but as I said earlier - check warranty info when price hunting. I couldn't get Nespresso to reduce their price on the U any more, but it does seem that they are selling it at the lowest price point of anyone anyway.

thanks for that, will ask about the warranty when shopping

wish we had a nespresso showroom down here

Regs

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# 810504 2-May-2013 22:02

Edwood:
mrphil: Anyone here use the nespresso lattissima en520? Thinking to get one since they are offering a $75 cash back

Also How much discount would a retailer normally give on this machines?

I haven't really used it, but this is the machine that the 'bartender' at the Nespresso showroom uses.
(I had them use the Nespresso U for me, but the one they use for everyone else is the en520)

If you're using it in a small office or making for a few people at once this would be worthwhile.
It also made a much hotter beverage than the Nespresso U + Airheadcino milk frother

i was sold on the "U", but the milk wasnt hot enough for my wife so that got shelved.

Bond and Bond had the latissima at a sweet price in their closing down sale... but too late sorry.

Looking at Harvey Norman, Noel Leeming, and Heathcotes (100%), there are differing prices. I'm guessing the cashback offer probably stands for all of them.

If you're looking for an e-tailer/retailer with an awesome reputation, Heathcotes took out top position in the customer service satisfaction survey Consumer/Fair Go this week.

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Fred99

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# 810513 2-May-2013 22:34

lchiu7:
nickb800:
richms:
lchiu7:
Fred99:
lchiu7: But for some reason no matter what size grind I use or what beans, the coffee comes out with lots of crema - much more than I see from commercial machines.

This might be typical behaviour from inexpensive machines with dual-wall (aka "pressurised") portafilter baskets:
http://www.espressoschool.com.au/about/faq/28-basics/13-unpressurised

probably it. Now trying to locate a replacement filter basket which is non-pressurised.

Why cant you just drill the single hole larger to prevent the pressure difference and therefore it being pressurized?

So much easier to buy this pre made (suits Breville & Sunbeam)

So I have punted and purchased this item from Amazon. Hope it's 51mm else it's going on Trademe!

http://www.amazon.com/Delonghi-606348-Filter-2-Dose/dp/B0006GC8GW/ref=rec_dp_0

OK - now some fun will start (and it could be that you'll even want to revert to the pressurised cup).
The double wall cups control flow through the (coffee) puck, so that grind has less impact on flow, so that you get an okay cup of coffee with the typical grind you get from inexpensive domestic grinders. Many inexpensive grinders can't do a fine enough grind for good espresso, where after pre-infusion, you'd typically aim to pull shots in ~25 seconds, before the coffee has blonded (over-expressed brings out bitter flavours). This depends on taste of course - some people like shorter pulled shots (ie ristretto), some people like long pulled shots.
Now that the flow isn't restricted by the pressurised cup, there are more variables to deal with - grind, tamping, pressure control if there is one on the machine, and the coffee itself (which might not be fresh, and/or consistent batch to batch).

lchiu7

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# 810705 3-May-2013 11:24

..

OK - now some fun will start (and it could be that you'll even want to revert to the pressurised cup).
The double wall cups control flow through the (coffee) puck, so that grind has less impact on flow, so that you get an okay cup of coffee with the typical grind you get from inexpensive domestic grinders. Many inexpensive grinders can't do a fine enough grind for good espresso, where after pre-infusion, you'd typically aim to pull shots in ~25 seconds, before the coffee has blonded (over-expressed brings out bitter flavours). This depends on taste of course - some people like shorter pulled shots (ie ristretto), some people like long pulled shots.
Now that the flow isn't restricted by the pressurised cup, there are more variables to deal with - grind, tamping, pressure control if there is one on the machine, and the coffee itself (which might not be fresh, and/or consistent batch to batch).

Well I do have a burr grinder so I am sure I can produce freshly ground coffee of the right consistency for the machine.

I experimented with all kinds of grinds hoping to reduce the faux crema not realising it was due to the pressurised basket. That was news to me and when I asked Delonghi support, they didn't mention it.

My wife's a trained barista (though she doesn't do it for a living) and has hardly ever pulled a cup of coffee for me but I can ask her to try out the new basket when it arrives and provide some tips :-)

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NZtechfreak

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# 810712 3-May-2013 11:37

Regs: i'm going to get a new portafilter for my saeco via venezia - my pressurised one is broken, and i didnt like it enough anyway.

this place does pressurised and non, and also 'bottomless'. havent decided if i'll try bottomless yet...
http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=portafilter

I would say go for bottomless.

Very instructive in terms of letting you identify when your dosing/levelling/tamping regime has resulted in defects in the coffee puck.

I also find they tend to taste better from bottomless ones. I was chatting about it with a Mojo barista and they were saying Mojo only uses bottomless because all the oils are transmitted to the shot resulting in better taste, rather than being largely deposited on the inside of the spouts as they are with typical portafilters. Sounds reasonable to me, but regardless I noticed a difference in the quality of the my coffee at home that I didn't think was entirely accounted for by improvements in the pre-extraction routine.

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