Recommended espresso machine?

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Reply # 930406 10-Nov-2013 21:15

Fred99: My home espresso setup is a Mazzer grinder and Rocket Cellini Evoluzione, retail price about $5k (NZ retail prices are very high though).

Nice setup!

Similar here - Mazzer Grinder and Expobar Brewtus II (fantastic machine).

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Reply # 930436 10-Nov-2013 21:50

Fred99:

My home espresso setup is a Mazzer grinder and Rocket Cellini Evoluzione, retail price about $5k (NZ retail prices are very high though). This is expensive, but by no means extreme. I don't believe you can save on grinder cost, but there's a premium paid for Rocket machines because of quality of finish, and in the case of the machine we have, for a commercial quality rotary vane pump which is very quiet in operation and can be easily plumbed-in, but those features won't improve the coffee, just a touch of luxury/convenience, you can do it for less (much less - but never scrimp on the grinder).

i had an email from rocket.co.nz the other day offering $1k off the Rocket Cellini V2 making it $2550. These are impressive machines, but they do cost a lot - especially when you add $1k for mazzer grinder - you have to really like your coffee to justify spending that much! $3.5k would be the equivalent of nearly 700 store bought flat whites at $5 a pop.... or 850 at $4 (and thats not counting the cost of beans, milk, grinder cleaning stuff, descaling compounds and anual servicing!)

Some people would be better off just finding an awesome coffee shop and paying for a coffee a day than buying their own kit - especially if (even with all the flash kit) they still cant produce a good cup of coffee.

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Reply # 930438 10-Nov-2013 21:53

My issue is that when i need a good coffee, I am in no condition to be able to put any effort into making it properly.

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Reply # 930442 10-Nov-2013 22:02

Regs:
Fred99:

My home espresso setup is a Mazzer grinder and Rocket Cellini Evoluzione, retail price about $5k (NZ retail prices are very high though). This is expensive, but by no means extreme. I don't believe you can save on grinder cost, but there's a premium paid for Rocket machines because of quality of finish, and in the case of the machine we have, for a commercial quality rotary vane pump which is very quiet in operation and can be easily plumbed-in, but those features won't improve the coffee, just a touch of luxury/convenience, you can do it for less (much less - but never scrimp on the grinder).

i had an email from rocket.co.nz the other day offering $1k off the Rocket Cellini V2 making it $2550. These are impressive machines, but they do cost a lot - especially when you add $1k for mazzer grinder - you have to really like your coffee to justify spending that much! $3.5k would be the equivalent of nearly 700 store bought flat whites at $5 a pop.... or 850 at $4 (and thats not counting the cost of beans, milk, grinder cleaning stuff, descaling compounds and anual servicing!)

Some people would be better off just finding an awesome coffee shop and paying for a coffee a day than buying their own kit - especially if (even with all the flash kit) they still cant produce a good cup of coffee.

Yes and no :)

In ~4 years, I've made over 4000 cups on my machine (my set-up similar in cost to the Rocket, about $3.6K all up with the grinder). It's also built like a tank and with a little maintenance along the way, I can't see any reason why it won't last another 20 years and go on to make another 16,000 or so coffees in that time (no way these nespresso pretenders can claim anything like that longevity). The savings Vs buying all those probably makes it worthwhile in the longterm for the bona fide coffee fiend.

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davidcole

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Reply # 930445 10-Nov-2013 22:04

Regs:
Fred99:

My home espresso setup is a Mazzer grinder and Rocket Cellini Evoluzione, retail price about $5k (NZ retail prices are very high though). This is expensive, but by no means extreme. I don't believe you can save on grinder cost, but there's a premium paid for Rocket machines because of quality of finish, and in the case of the machine we have, for a commercial quality rotary vane pump which is very quiet in operation and can be easily plumbed-in, but those features won't improve the coffee, just a touch of luxury/convenience, you can do it for less (much less - but never scrimp on the grinder).

i had an email from rocket.co.nz the other day offering $1k off the Rocket Cellini V2 making it $2550. These are impressive machines, but they do cost a lot - especially when you add $1k for mazzer grinder - you have to really like your coffee to justify spending that much! $3.5k would be the equivalent of nearly 700 store bought flat whites at $5 a pop.... or 850 at $4 (and thats not counting the cost of beans, milk, grinder cleaning stuff, descaling compounds and anual servicing!)

Some people would be better off just finding an awesome coffee shop and paying for a coffee a day than buying their own kit - especially if (even with all the flash kit) they still cant produce a good cup of coffee.

I got a rocket from Ripe, a package that came with a mini macho. While not a mini mazza it does a pretty good job. And there's nothing stopping with you getting a mini mazzer or equivalent later on as funds permit.

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Reply # 930460 10-Nov-2013 22:20

NZtechfreak:
Regs:

Some people would be better off just finding an awesome coffee shop and paying for a coffee a day than buying their own kit - especially if (even with all the flash kit) they still cant produce a good cup of coffee.

The savings Vs buying all those probably makes it worthwhile in the longterm for the bona fide coffee fiend.

by "some people" i never meant you, nor I, nor the true 'bona fide coffee fiend'. I like having the ability to produce a top cup of coffee at home, and would even pay more for the convenience.... i've had some truly awful coffee from a home rocket (and from some coffee shops) and these people would certainly be better off going down a different path - even nespresso!

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Fred99

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Reply # 930463 10-Nov-2013 22:24

We make 6-8 double shots a day on average, so payback period is short.

I like the Mazzer grinder very much (basic Mini - not "E"). All over forums you read of "issues" with grind, some people say humidity/temperature etc. I don't see that problem - I think it's inferior grinder quality, poor machining tolerances etc. I only need to adjust slightly between batches of beans, after a little experience you know just how much to turn the lever to get the grind perfect. The mini is a little slow - about 25 seconds to grind a double shot. 25 year guarantee - now that's confident.

Good to see Rocket reduced the price of the Cellini V2 to $2550, but retail price for the Evo V2 ($500 more than the premium Plus V2) is still only about NZ$2,000 in Italy, so it's better but still not a bargain.

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Reply # 930464 10-Nov-2013 22:24

[quote ]

Regs:
NZtechfreak:
Regs:

Some people would be better off just finding an awesome coffee shop and paying for a coffee a day than buying their own kit - especially if (even with all the flash kit) they still cant produce a good cup of coffee.

The savings Vs buying all those probably makes it worthwhile in the longterm for the bona fide coffee fiend.

by "some people" i never meant you, nor I, nor the true 'bona fide coffee fiend'. I like having the ability to produce a top cup of coffee at home, and would even pay more for the convenience.... i've had some truly awful coffee from a home rocket (and from some coffee shops) and these people would certainly be better off going down a different path - even nespresso!

[/quoted for truth]

Well that is certainly true.

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Edwood

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Reply # 930608 11-Nov-2013 11:09

qwertee: Bottom line is stick to the Nespresso brand capsules for a consistently good cup of coffee.

Yup, i've done a fair bit of testing, and despite my previous comments, I agree this bottom line is a good one.

Regs: i had an email from rocket.co.nz the other day offering $1k off the Rocket Cellini V2 making it $2550

Ouch. I'm sure I paid just over $3k for my Rocket E61 (although I dont see E61 printed on it anywhere)... I hope this doesn't erode the value of my Rocket on the 2nd hand market too much.
I've been planning on putting it on TradeMe for a few months now, but still haven't pulled the pin... can't quite bear to see it go.
Clearly i've compromised - I've gone from Rocket E61 + Mini Macho (which I highly recommend) to Nespresso. However, current and forecast circumstances mean that it will work for me for now.

freitasm

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Reply # 934172 15-Nov-2013 07:15

One person supports this post

Removed a spam reply, from a New Zealander no less.

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thecatsgoolies

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Reply # 934860 16-Nov-2013 12:36

NZtechfreak:
Regs:
Fred99:

My home espresso setup is a Mazzer grinder and Rocket Cellini Evoluzione, retail price about $5k (NZ retail prices are very high though). This is expensive, but by no means extreme. I don't believe you can save on grinder cost, but there's a premium paid for Rocket machines because of quality of finish, and in the case of the machine we have, for a commercial quality rotary vane pump which is very quiet in operation and can be easily plumbed-in, but those features won't improve the coffee, just a touch of luxury/convenience, you can do it for less (much less - but never scrimp on the grinder).

i had an email from rocket.co.nz the other day offering $1k off the Rocket Cellini V2 making it $2550. These are impressive machines, but they do cost a lot - especially when you add $1k for mazzer grinder - you have to really like your coffee to justify spending that much! $3.5k would be the equivalent of nearly 700 store bought flat whites at $5 a pop.... or 850 at $4 (and thats not counting the cost of beans, milk, grinder cleaning stuff, descaling compounds and anual servicing!)

Some people would be better off just finding an awesome coffee shop and paying for a coffee a day than buying their own kit - especially if (even with all the flash kit) they still cant produce a good cup of coffee.

Yes and no :)

In ~4 years, I've made over 4000 cups on my machine (my set-up similar in cost to the Rocket, about $3.6K all up with the grinder). It's also built like a tank and with a little maintenance along the way, I can't see any reason why it won't last another 20 years and go on to make another 16,000 or so coffees in that time (no way these nespresso pretenders can claim anything like that longevity). The savings Vs buying all those probably makes it worthwhile in the longterm for the bona fide coffee fiend.

Okay, am going to be shot down in flames now but I have taken to buying the Robert Harris coffee bags and having one each morning in my plunger for one! I love it ....Not bad for a Robert Harris brew and I don't normally endorse them and to be honest, would happily walk past their cafe's but they really aren't that bad!

Fred99

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Reply # 934904 16-Nov-2013 14:32

thecatsgoolies:

Okay, am going to be shot down in flames now but I have taken to buying the Robert Harris coffee bags and having one each morning in my plunger for one! I love it ....Not bad for a Robert Harris brew and I don't normally endorse them and to be honest, would happily walk past their cafe's but they really aren't that bad!

You're not going to get shot down in flames, but if you like plunger coffee, then a relatively inexpensive grinder will allow you to use fresh beans from your local cafe/roaster. It's different from espresso grind, where a much finer and consistent grind is needed to make proper espresso and inexpensive Breville/Sunbeam appliance store burr grinders just don't cut the mustard, but would probably be perfectly fine for plunger. Some "coffee snob" cafes offer plunger and filter as well as espresso - about the only thing they probably won't do is instant.

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Reply # 934915 16-Nov-2013 14:46

Fred99:
thecatsgoolies:

Okay, am going to be shot down in flames now but I have taken to buying the Robert Harris coffee bags and having one each morning in my plunger for one! I love it ....Not bad for a Robert Harris brew and I don't normally endorse them and to be honest, would happily walk past their cafe's but they really aren't that bad!

You're not going to get shot down in flames, but if you like plunger coffee, then a relatively inexpensive grinder will allow you to use fresh beans from your local cafe/roaster. It's different from espresso grind, where a much finer and consistent grind is needed to make proper espresso and inexpensive Breville/Sunbeam appliance store burr grinders just don't cut the mustard, but would probably be perfectly fine for plunger. Some "coffee snob" cafes offer plunger and filter as well as espresso - about the only thing they probably won't do is instant.

Which is fine by me :-) The one thing I will never do is Instant!
Now I want a coffee

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Reply # 934918 16-Nov-2013 14:51

I use instant for a cafe con leche: a cup of milk in microwave for two minutes, two spoons of instant coffee... I drink this in the morning, every day, for the last 40 something years. After that is one cafe latte in the morning and then two or three espresso during the day (when at home).

I actually think most of my liquid intake is from coffee than just water...

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Reply # 934922 16-Nov-2013 15:00

freitasm: I use instant for a cafe con leche: a cup of milk in microwave for two minutes, two spoons of instant coffee... I drink this in the morning, every day, for the last 40 something years. After that is one cafe latte in the morning and then two or three espresso during the day (when at home).

I actually think most of my liquid intake is from coffee than just water...

My nana used to do her instant this way. Schooled us kiddies into drinking coffee at a ripe old age of 9 ;-) Warmed milk, instant coffee and too much sugar lol. Miss12 has now advised me she is drinking coffee I didn't even flinch when she told me. Now if she were drinking whiskey, may be another issue

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