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  Reply # 566238 8-Jan-2012 20:33
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bit confused here, you say you never speed then go on to say "they caught me the one time I put my foot down " would lead one to believe you were speeding????

anyway what exactly are you after on this thread as it makes it hard to offer advice or opinions




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  Reply # 566338 9-Jan-2012 02:20
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what exactly am i after ?

I do not know whether the police vehicle was moving or stationary, i do not know if it was a radar or laser, although i saw the reading on the dash i did not ask for calibration. 
Can i ask for such details in the letter? can you write in more than once or is it one chance for consideration then end of story? 

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  Reply # 566354 9-Jan-2012 07:27
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"they caught me the one time I put my foot down " - you were speeding then. Just because they havent caught you before does not give you the right to do it again. The speed limit is exactly that.

Ive been caught out 3 times speeding, not that I was meaning to but I was and it was over the limit enough to be ticketed (although one of them I couldve argued, speed camera was not in its zone back in the days they could only be in a certain area - but I was over the limit regardless).

The one car Ive owned that I shouldve been picked up in, I never sped in or got stopped by police (a Subaru twin turbo) - all the tickets I got were in slower, older family mobiles :)




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  Reply # 566424 9-Jan-2012 11:06
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qwerty7: yes i agree if you do the crime do the time but i do not believe my speed was as high as what was recorded the officer in his vehicle was infront of me up a hill, some distance away, about 400 meters with an additional rise in the road between us. I never speed it was just a case of wrong place wrong time.

I do not know whether the police vehicle was moving or stationary, i do not know if it was a radar or laser, although i saw the reading on the dash i did not ask for calibration. This is my first offence and i did not want to push it.


If you saw it on the dash then it was a radar. The radars can be set to track either behind or ahead vehicles (but not both at the same time). They can track both yourself and one other vehicle in the direction that the radar is pointing and discriminate as to the fastest and slowest speeds but the officer has to decide which is in his opinion the fastest if both vehicles are heading in the same direction. If there are 3 or more vehicles in range of the radar then it gets real messy.

The lasers are hand held guns and also when they are used the officer has to be either out of the car or parked at right angles to the road so that he can fire it through an open side window of his vehicle - so pretty obvious if it were to be one of those. Also, while the police quote big ranges for the lasers they can only practically use them at close range as they need to target your number plate or something similar that is flat and reflective and is quite difficult to do - so very unlikely at 400 meters.

I suggest that you write in but I don't hold out much for your chances - despite the accuracy problems with radar then unless perhaps you have witnesses which could be made embarrassing for the police to disbelieve (such as a minister of religion) they will consider it accurate  and they will believe the officer's notes only (and as in my case they may be false or omit relevant information such as if there were many vehicles in range of the radar) not you even if  the situation was that it was impossible for your vehicle to have been doing that speed in the circumstances.

It may be useful to know, if not so already, is that almost all cars including high quality ones, their speedos read high, typically by around 5% or so. That is, if 5% high then if your speedo reads around 105km/hr when you are actually only doing 100.  A GPS will show the speed correctly within a km/hr or so.
So if, as you claim, you were not speeding, your actual spped was likely even less than you believed.
  
Take no notice of those who keep saying that if you stick to the law you will be safe, they are of the vindictive types who would have the blind prosecuted for not reading "Keep off the Grass" signs. As I know from my own experience and from knowledge of the accuracy and potential problems of radar units in use (and I have a professional background in radar as well)  that if you stick to the law and not exceed the limit you can, as I have pointed out (but still not understood by the silly ones) easily be incorrectly ticketed because of the inaccuracy of the police equipment and likely be without a defense.

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  Reply # 566451 9-Jan-2012 12:05
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Take no notice of those who keep saying that if you stick to the law you will be safe, they are of the vindictive types who would have the blind prosecuted for not reading "Keep off the Grass" signs. As I know from my own experience and from knowledge of the accuracy and potential problems of radar units in use (and I have a professional background in radar as well)  that if you stick to the law and not exceed the limit you can, as I have pointed out (but still not understood by the silly ones) easily be incorrectly ticketed because of the inaccuracy of the police equipment and likely be without a defense.


I think I prefer the defense, "yes officer I was following the law" rather than "I dont know if I was speeding or not, but it doesn't matter cause your equipment is highly inaccurate and youll give me a ticket any way"

I would hazard a guess and say the majority of tickets are accurate. However, if you have figures to suggest otherwise then we would love to hear them.

@qwerty7
You can dispute tickets and take the Police to Court - however, they will turn up with a calibration certificate for both the radar and the vehicle. The officer will be certified in its use. What will you have?

At the end of the day, what you will have is a speeding ticket and court costs. Suck it up and take the punishment for speeding.
 

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  Reply # 566454 9-Jan-2012 12:14
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John2010:
The most common error I see is an operational one where side angle radars in vans are parked well back from the side of the road but are not parallel to the road. They seem very slack at this and the angles I have seen mean that one can easily while driving at 100km/hr get a ticket from a speed camera in the holiday periods if the up to 104 km/hr tolerance is implemented in the camera radars.
 


The Cosine Effect causes a stationary radar to measure speeds low, the greater the angle the lower the measured speed. Moving mode radar may measure target speed HIGH in some situations.
In most situations, the speed is read low which is an advantage to the driver, not the Police 

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  Reply # 566476 9-Jan-2012 12:57
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"Take no notice of those who keep saying that if you stick to the law you will be safe, they are of the vindictive types who would have the blind prosecuted for not reading "Keep off the Grass" signs."

John not sure who you are getting at with the above post as I didn't see any poster saying this although I stand corrected on this. It would seem, from what Op has finally said, that he was speeding but only wants to know about getting info from and to the Police which I think has been answered.

No one doubts the info you have put forward and as i said before it is very handy info to have. The OP seems to want to hedge around what speed he was doing or ticketed for saying its irrelevant, which it isn't and there seems to be another side to this we aren't party to which may affect how some view this thread.







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  Reply # 566479 9-Jan-2012 13:06
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SpookyAwol:
John2010: The most common error I see is an operational one where side angle radars in vans are parked well back from the side of the road but are not parallel to the road. They seem very slack at this and the angles I have seen mean that one can easily while driving at 100km/hr get a ticket from a speed camera in the holiday periods if the up to 104 km/hr tolerance is implemented in the camera radars.

The Cosine Effect causes a stationary radar to measure speeds low, the greater the angle the lower the measured speed. Moving mode radar may measure target speed HIGH in some situations. In most situations, the speed is read low which is an advantage to the driver, not the Police


Read my posts which are all correct instead of posting information that has been trawled from somewhere and is both contradictory and misleading. So I repeat -

Side angle radars (as used for speed cameras, and which of course are stationary) actually read speed high due to the cosine effect if the radar is angled down the road at less than the design angle (generally 22.5 degrees for police radars) i.e the camera vehicle is parked front angled out as is frequently the case when the camera vehicle is set well back from the side of the road.

For non side angle radars (i.e. those mounted in the police vehicles) the cosine effect becomes so small (as the angle to the target is always small in operation) as to be a non issue. For example if the angle from the moving or stationary police vehicle to the target vehicle is 2 degrees then at 100 km/hour the radar will read 99.94 km/hr, if 5 degrees then will read  99.6km/hr. There is no useful advantage to the motorist and this is not the cause of the errors that these radars have.

In both side angle and non side angle radars big errors can be had if the target vehicles are coming around a bend (either to the advantage or disadvantage to the target vehicle if a side angle radar and always to the advantage of the target if a non side angle one) but the radars are never operated for targets on bends - I have never seen a side angle radar used on a bend.  



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  Reply # 566532 9-Jan-2012 15:18
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ok i was clocked at 63 km/h in a 50 k zone being 13 km/h above the posted speed limit

the electronic speedo on the dash was reading 57 / 58 km/h 

my vehicle had standard wheels and tyres

The scene looked like this:

where the blue is the police car, do not take the angle of the hill or such as being accurate. 

Although a line of sight is possible between the police car and before the rise in the road to me i would have questions of accuracy. Is it possible the speed detecting device used rebounded of the hill? I know nothing about how these things work. 

That is why I want to know can i ask things in the letter such as was the police car stationary or moving at the time/where was my vehicle located when the reading was taken/proof the device was correctly calibrated

also if i write in once and they say no, can i write in again?

I admit i was speeding but 98% of the time i sit around 52 / 53. having an electronic speedo is really helpful



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  Reply # 566546 9-Jan-2012 16:04
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If the green and brown blobs represent 3 vehicles other than the police one and were all visible to the police radar then it is possible that the radar was in error but it will be your word against the officer's notes. But you concede that you were speeding so even if the radar was in error insofar as the actual speed is concerned it was not in error insofar as you were exceeding the posted limit.

You can write in an excuse for speeding but I'm sure they won't be interested unless you have something of a life or death nature and if you had you would have mentioned that to the ticketing officer at the time. What your usual speed complying habits are they won't be interested in even if you have no traffic offences against you already. You are wasting your time asking about the calibration as it will have been so.

You can take the case to court (and incorrectly claiming you were not speeding) in which case then the officer's notes of the offence (which will be taken as stronger than your own evidence even if you were to know that you were not speeding), the radar's calibration certificate, etc, will be discovered to you automatically. The case would likely be heard before JP's in which case you may get some listening to if you did not speed and were able to present a sincere enough sounding case. But from what you have said I don't fancy your chances.

In modern vehicles, especially 6 cylinder or better performing 4 cylinder ones it is easy to and everyone having them does, stray accidently above the limit on overrunning down a hill, over accelerating when overtaking, etc, etc unless one is watching the speedo all the time instead of the road about you (especially dangerous when overtaking) or one is a snail driving at slow speeds which are a danger in themselves when holding other traffic up. My attitude is that if I was to be caught when accidently doing so I would just pay up and regard it as one of the normal costs of motoring similar to an oil change i.e. the penalty in that case is just of antagonistic value rather than one encouraging respect of the law.

All the righteous ones will be along soon to tell you off and how even 1km/hr above the limit desrves hanging Smile - I'll just wish you luck in whatever course you decide to take.



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  Reply # 566567 9-Jan-2012 16:40
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The green dots are possible positions of my vehicle when the reading was taken

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  Reply # 566742 10-Jan-2012 08:51
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So, is the deal just that you only want to pay $30 rather than $80?

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  Reply # 566758 10-Jan-2012 09:27
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bazzer: So, is the deal just that you only want to pay $30 rather than $80?


I think it might be more about the 20 demerit points.

However, he has no case at all now.  He's admitted above "I admit i was speeding but 98% of the time i sit around 52 / 53."  

So any court case would be a fail.  Since the prosecutor could just take a snapshot of this page(even if he edits it) and bring that up.  That he's admitted he was at fault and speeding.

I'd say, just pay the fine.  You should never admit fault in a situation involving a ticket or crash




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  Reply # 566766 10-Jan-2012 09:51
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So you were clocked over the limit, your speedo also showed you over the limit, and you think you have a case for getting off?

I don't speed very often (or by much), because its dangerous, and I don't want tickets. If I got caught, I would pay it, rather than... /end

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  Reply # 566775 10-Jan-2012 10:09
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You can write to the police and ask for disclosure. You can do it with snail mail or you can do it online form the police website: https://forms.police.govt.nz/forms/police-infringement-bureau/26

Quote your ticket number and provide your details.

The will send you a copy of the notice, the officer's notes, and relevant certificates (accuracy for radar and vehicle and officers proficiency). You will also be sent from the officer the radar log books.

If you don't get this information then you have a defence.

If you do get all this information and having looked at it you want to raise an issue with the police you can still do so.

You should do it sooner rather than later as you only have 56 days before the matter will be referred to the courts for non payment of the fine. Also once you raise a matter for dispute they will usually extend the payment period while its under consideration.

There is some other useful information on the police web site.

You need to remember that often times your speed has been checked and locked or noted by the officer  before you even know you're speeding. He's looking for you but you're not generally looking for him.

The other thing to consider is if you take it to court you don't have to prove anything. They have to prove their case beyond reasonable doubt.

Hope that helps.

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