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660 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 573859 26-Jan-2012 21:29
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How about this view of looking at it : 

You have land (cloud), and you lease it out for legitimate purposes( business, personal use) to your broker and after few years some of the tenants are misusing the space.

 Now , is the landlord responsible for all the illegal activities done by the tenants? would he be arrested , and jailed cause some one on his property was doing so ( piracy )   

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  # 573866 26-Jan-2012 21:43
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sep11guy: How about this view of looking at it :?

You have land (cloud), and you lease it out for legitimate purposes( business, personal use) to your broker and after few years some of the tenants are misusing the space.

?Now , is the landlord responsible for all the illegal?activities done by the tenants? would he be arrested , and jailed cause some one on his property was doing so ( piracy )? ?


If you know illegal activity is going on then yes you could end up in jail. Drug offending is the obvious one here.

The indictment alledges that Dotcom and others knew and encouraged illegal activities were taking place on their servers.

 
 
 
 


79 posts

Master Geek


  # 573872 26-Jan-2012 22:08
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jpollock:

The funny thing is that the GPL relies on copyright to ensure that the license is adhered to.  Without copyright, the GPL couldn't exist.  Same for any other software license other than public domain.

 


Exactly right. I respect copyright, because it's a useful tool. But it is not property.

You can call a toad a bird, but you can't make it fly south for the winter. 

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Ultimate Geek


  # 574868 30-Jan-2012 11:06
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For those jumping up on their moral high horse, as per the judge via the bail hearing "the US is yet to file any evidence"

So a commando raid on a nz resident precided over by nz police, with zero evidence presented. The entire process is a house of cards, without the "criminal copyright violations" there it's no money laundering or fraud charges, & as there are no provisions for extradition for copyright violations, no money laundering, no extradition...

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  # 574889 30-Jan-2012 12:07
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MikeyPI: For those jumping up on their moral high horse, as per the judge via the bail hearing "the US is yet to file any evidence"



So a commando raid on a nz resident precided over by nz police, with zero evidence presented. The entire process is a house of cards, without the "criminal copyright violations" there it's no money laundering or fraud charges, & as there are no provisions for extradition for copyright violations, no money laundering, no extradition...


Depends if the criminal copyright infringement would result in a 12 month+ jail term in NZ were they prosecuted here.  If so, extradition would still be on the cards.  Whether they could successfully argue that though... not sure.  But the indictment released by the FBI is pretty damning (and, with no evidence, potentially at least partially fabricated).

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Ultimate Geek


  # 574893 30-Jan-2012 12:19
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just checking the lengthy extradition legislation, but was under the impression it was the crime, not the time that was the deciding factor...

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Master Geek


  # 574936 30-Jan-2012 13:44
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MikeyPI: just checking the lengthy extradition legislation, but was under the impression it was the crime, not the time that was the deciding factor...


It's a combination. If it's a crime here as well as there (for any definition of "there") which would get more than 12 months here on conviction, then extradition is arguable. If it's not a crime here, there would most likely not even be an arrest.

It will be  interesting to see if the US has to prove the copyright charge in the extradition hearing, but I think they only have to prove that there's a case to answer, and the real trial with that evidence will be in the US.  Also, the copyright charge is not the main charge, which is racketeering and money laundering, which will ease the process somewhat for the USG, but those charges both depend on the criminal copyright infringement being proven. 

It ain't over till it's over ;-) 

 
 
 
 


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  # 575018 30-Jan-2012 17:14
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Here's an interesting NZ Herald article on the current situation.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10781984




Regards,

Old3eyes


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Ultimate Geek


  # 575043 30-Jan-2012 18:14
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As per the article, he has been denied bail for a write collar crime, probably the first in our history, wife is heavily pregnant, frozen bank accounts & assets, all with ZERO evidence filed...

Even of we were talking about "Terriwists" it would still be heavy handed & over the top..
Scary world now that we have thrown due process out the window...

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  # 575060 30-Jan-2012 19:20
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Master Geek


  # 575070 30-Jan-2012 20:05
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That is interesting. This one is going to break new ground, definitely.

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  # 575087 30-Jan-2012 21:00
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I wonder if the data will be deleted?

News article here

I wouldn't be too happy if my data was deleted, especially as nothing has been proven yet.

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  # 575091 30-Jan-2012 21:11
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Well imo putting the only copy of something in a location you cant walk over to and. pick up to take with you is risky




Richard rich.ms

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  # 575114 30-Jan-2012 22:23
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This looks to the be the best legal soap opera for a while, best of all nobody actually got hurt so we don't have to feel guilty about treating it as a soap opera. 

That Register article linked to a couple of posts ago says one of the problems for the prosecution is the differences between civil and criminal law. It goes on to say that Kim.com et al may well get off if all this actually goes to court. 

So, here is my question. If, and it is a big if, they get off what does that mean for the rest of us? 

Does this give further weight to the idea that Megaupload was targeted because they don't have the pull, money, of Google? 

What does that say about 'justice'?

Will this weaken the case of those who want to see a legal remedy of those who have their stuff copied without their permission? 

Or does it not really matter?

Is the best way to fight 'piracy' to provide a paid for service which is more convenient and easier to use. Maybe we just have to accept that some people will still illegally download stuff no matter what you do like some people shoplift despite it being kind of stupid from a risk vs reward point of view. Shoplifting doesn't invalidate the retail model. 

Is the court system so World 1.0 in cases like this?



 




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

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  # 575116 30-Jan-2012 22:31
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nzlemming:
jpollock:

The funny thing is that the GPL relies on copyright to ensure that the license is adhered to.  Without copyright, the GPL couldn't exist.  Same for any other software license other than public domain.

 


Exactly right. I respect copyright, because it's a useful tool. But it is not property.

You can call a toad a bird, but you can't make it fly south for the winter. 


Of course if there was no copyright there would be no NEED for the GPL.

So one shouldn't describe the GPL as dependent on copyright, Instead, it is a consequence of copyright.

In the same way that the tsumani that hit Japan in May last year was not dependent on the huge earthquake. It was a consequence of the huge earthquake.... 

 




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