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  # 610906 18-Apr-2012 00:23
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JohnButt: A few points to include in the debate:
We are trying to get the same number of probes per ISP, having said that it is easier to get Telecom probes so there is more, but not proportional to their market share (which by the way is around 50% from the last stats I saw)
Yes this traffic is only National and that is a smaller proportion of NZ traffic, we are testing more but have not the time yet to publish - I hope to correct that in the near future.
The browsing test is however some representation of a lot of usage issues, international browsing for example is unlikely to be much better than National, so it does give some indication, poor DNS and poor latency are also not going to help browsing.
Telecom has not always been "the best", maybe they put the greatest effort into getting to be the best

And lastly, the gap is small, but the dummy page is also small at 300k, a larger page would drive download times up, not necessarily proportional.


Yes Telecom has put a lot of work into their recursive DNS clusters [server clustering, running a fast DNS engine and doing things like re-writing TTLs and caching them for longer than normal....] to ensure their users get the fastest DNS response times, 

My comments around the international traffic was not to show better results, I'm expecting worse across the board, however that's the point as that's more representative of user experience as ISPs peering, , prioritization, caching, over-subscription etc will all come into play.

Is it possible to have the test page be more loaded in terms of content as is say the homepage to www.nzherald.co.nz or www.cnn.com where longer loading times will reduce the margin of error?

I do look forward to the expanded testing results and hope your newly won contract will help you get there.



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  # 611303 18-Apr-2012 17:27
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Yes I wonder what the provider stats would look like if they were pulling via the proxy arrays and differing routing.

Presenting results on 20% of what people use does seem a little odd to me.

I don't really follow what this data is telling us other than the suggestion that you need to own your own layer 1 network to deliver best results.

It seems that the two providers who owned the infrastructure got the best results.

Will be interesting to see what happens as we move through the next round of gear and Telecom joins other providers in the same platform.





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  # 611346 18-Apr-2012 18:38
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DonGould: It seems that the two providers who owned the infrastructure got the best results.



Are you inferring that a Chorus EUBA0 connection offered to Telecom retail is in some way superior to a EUBA0 connection offered to any other ISP? Telecom use the *exact* same Chorus platform as every other ISP. If you have information to suggest they're being treated differently to other ISP's the Commerce Commission would love to meet you. They love sitting in court with Telecom.

Maybe the reason Telecom are ahead is because they migrated significant numbers of users to EUBA so quickly, whereas some ISP's still have large numbers of users on BUBA which offers a vastly inferior DSL internet experience.






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  # 611424 18-Apr-2012 19:55
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sbiddle:  Are you inferring that a Chorus EUBA0 connection offered to Telecom retail is in some way superior to a EUBA0 connection offered to any other ISP? Telecom use the *exact* same Chorus platform as every other ISP. If you have information to suggest they're being treated differently to other ISP's the Commerce Commission would love to meet you. They love sitting in court with Telecom.



I haven't got a clue what's going on.  That's why I'm asking and just discussing what the numbers John's presented, to me.

sbiddle: 
Maybe the reason Telecom are ahead is because they migrated significant numbers of users to EUBA so quickly, whereas some ISP's still have large numbers of users on BUBA which offers a vastly inferior DSL internet experience.


...and why is it that Telecom move so quickly? 

Did they get a better price from Chorus because of the volume they can bring to the table?

I'm not going to suggest that they had inside knowledge that other ISPs didn't have, which enabled them to move faster...  but their size does mean they can afford to have dedicated staff who focus on the planning and have access to resource that the smaller guys don't.






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  # 611435 18-Apr-2012 20:09
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DonGould:
sbiddle:  Are you inferring that a Chorus EUBA0 connection offered to Telecom retail is in some way superior to a EUBA0 connection offered to any other ISP? Telecom use the *exact* same Chorus platform as every other ISP. If you have information to suggest they're being treated differently to other ISP's the Commerce Commission would love to meet you. They love sitting in court with Telecom.



I haven't got a clue what's going on.  That's why I'm asking and just discussing what the numbers John's presented, to me.

sbiddle: 
Maybe the reason Telecom are ahead is because they migrated significant numbers of users to EUBA so quickly, whereas some ISP's still have large numbers of users on BUBA which offers a vastly inferior DSL internet experience.


...and why is it that Telecom move so quickly? 

Did they get a better price from Chorus because of the volume they can bring to the table?



So you're now inferring that Telecom got a better deal from Chorus than other ISP's for a Commerce Commission regulated offering? The Commerce Commission will really love to be hearing from you now.

Do you even understand the difference between EUBA and UBS/BUBA, how they work, why EUBA is superior, or what is involved in an ISP switching customers between UBS/UBA and EUBA?


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  # 611439 18-Apr-2012 20:15
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Tbh I think someone just doesn't like Telecom.

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  # 611441 18-Apr-2012 20:18
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sbiddle: So you're now inferring that Telecom got a better deal from Chorus than other ISP's for a Commerce Commission regulated offering? The Commerce Commission will really love to be hearing from you now.


Inferring?  Questioning perhaps.  Look, it's fairly typical that you get a better price when you buy volume.  Sorry, I was not aware that the ComCom had set a fixed buy price like has happened in .au with the NBN.  I expected it was more like the T.au stuff where the ACCC sets a max price but the industry price can be much lower based on volume and other bundled products.


sbiddle:  Do you even understand the difference between EUBA and UBS/BUBA, how they work, why EUBA is superior, or what is involved in an ISP switching customers between UBS/UBA and EUBA?


No,

So you think the primary reason for the much better and consistent TrueNet stats is purely EUBA?








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  # 611446 18-Apr-2012 20:29
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boby55: Tbh I think someone just doesn't like Telecom.


Rubbish.  If anyone else had the same sort of consistent numbers I'd be asking questions.  I think I've more than proven I'm quite consistent in asking these sorts of questions.






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  # 611468 18-Apr-2012 21:04
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DonGould:
boby55: Tbh I think someone just doesn't like Telecom.


Rubbish.  If anyone else had the same sort of consistent numbers I'd be asking questions.  I think I've more than proven I'm quite consistent in asking these sorts of questions.



No, I agree, you just don't like Telecom.




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  # 611485 18-Apr-2012 21:18
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Id consider joining this truenet thing if I could know for sure that it wouldnt mess with my gaming.
MW3 on PS3 is temper-mental at the best of times.

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  # 611563 18-Apr-2012 22:37
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DonGould:
boby55: Tbh I think someone just doesn't like Telecom.


Rubbish.? If anyone else had the same sort of consistent numbers I'd be asking questions.? I think I've more than proven I'm quite consistent in asking these sorts of questions.



Seems to me more like you've proven you like to make inferences under the guise of questions, but are unable to back anything up when people who know what they're talking about wade into the conversation.

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  # 611575 18-Apr-2012 22:48
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Man there's some cats that don't like Telecom being questioned and any suggestion of market regulation.

I find it interesting that people just jump on the bandwagon about hating Telecom yet didn't even bother to look at the facts and simply point out that in fact there are a number of ISPs who are running in parallel now, a fact that I missed seeing.

I also note with interest that no one pointed out that 4 ISPs have got worse in the last 3 months and that perhaps that's because they're picking up more customers and over loading their networks and that in fact it's possible my regulation suggestion isn't needed because the market is moving naturally.





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  # 611587 18-Apr-2012 23:18
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halfbaked: Id consider joining this truenet thing if I could know for sure that it wouldnt mess with my gaming.
MW3 on PS3 is temper-mental at the best of times.


Unlikely to, the probe is a simple bridged router from your point of view, it checks for activity on line before and during tests, so as long as your gaming goes through the probe it will not try to test.  

I wonder if any gamers with TrueNet probes are watching this thread and could comment?  

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  # 611609 19-Apr-2012 03:29
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DonGould: 

I haven't got a clue what's going on.  



That's evident

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  # 611615 19-Apr-2012 06:10
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DonGould: I also note with interest that no one pointed out that 4 ISPs have got worse in the last 3 months and that perhaps that's because they're picking up more customers and over loading their networks and that in fact it's possible my regulation suggestion isn't needed because the market is moving naturally.



You talk about regulation as though it's something needed in the market, when it's something that already eixsts. THE DSL market has been fully regulated for a number of years, IMHO if it wasn't for the fact ADSL was a fully regulated service with pricing and access conditions set by our compeition regulator we would have seen much greater competion years ago. The 46kbps UBA (and theoretically EUBA0) handover dimensioning is a requirement set by none other than the Commerce Commission themselves.

Now with these new caps we've just for the EUBA dimensioning to owrry about. If that ever comes into effect it's going to really cause a stir, because it's got the potential to cause a lot of carnage.




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