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  Reply # 50907 3-Nov-2006 12:50
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Jama: I think you need electricity to deliver DSL. Then you need a decent transporatation network to distribute the modems. Gee which infrastructure should be fixed first?

Well that doesn't excuse everybody sitting on their hands doing nothing now does it?

Is it too much to ask for Telecom to lead the way in preparing our infrastructure to support FUTURE technologies such as ADSL2+?

If said infrastructure is choking under the weight of Full-speed ADSL (introduced to NZ in 1999), how the hell is it going to cope with ADSL2+ running at speeds around 3 x higher?

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  Reply # 50909 3-Nov-2006 13:17
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Grant17: Is it too much to ask for Telecom to lead the way in preparing our infrastructure to support FUTURE technologies such as ADSL2+?

If said infrastructure is choking under the weight of Full-speed ADSL (introduced to NZ in 1999), how the hell is it going to cope with ADSL2+ running at speeds around 3 x higher?

They were going to do that, but it got delayed because our government in all its lack of wisdom decided the LLU might be fun to implement. So Telecom have had that to deal with.

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  Reply # 50910 3-Nov-2006 13:19
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Is it to much to ask that we have decent roads and that repetitive accident spots are fixed. Or that we have a decent electricity infrastructure and that Auckland doesn't lose power because a faulty $2 ubolt?

I know that I have paid for decent roads through my registration and the tax on petrol.

No one dies from having slow broadband but people die on the roads and elderly die in Winter because they can not afford heating.






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  Reply # 50911 3-Nov-2006 13:33
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bradstewart:
Grant17: Is it too much to ask for Telecom to lead the way in preparing our infrastructure to support FUTURE technologies such as ADSL2+?

If said infrastructure is choking under the weight of Full-speed ADSL (introduced to NZ in 1999), how the hell is it going to cope with ADSL2+ running at speeds around 3 x higher?

They were going to do that, but it got delayed because our government in all its lack of wisdom decided the LLU might be fun to implement. So Telecom have had that to deal with.


Up until the decision this year many people have said there was no chance of ULL actually occuring. Why had Telecom not invested in their infrastructure based on this fact? Had their been a cloud of doubt over the the likelihood of ULL occuring you could perfectly understand not spending money on infrastructure.


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  Reply # 50912 3-Nov-2006 13:38
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Grant17: To have to admit that -- in the year 2006 -- "The infrastructure is not there to support fullspeed ADSL" is a damning indictment on Telecom who's sole prerogative it has been to manage the investment in said infrastructure.

I think they managed the investment brilliantly. When playing by their rules, things were running fine, and would have continued to do so until the launch of NGN services, whilst getting a great rate of return for the people who actually own the company, and therefore the infrastructure.

Thats right - regardless of what you want/think, the infrastructure is not yours. Its Telecoms, and as such, belongs to the shareholders. If you are a shareholder, you can make your feelings known through other channels, but without that status (or the status of regulator), you might as well be commanding OPSM to sell cheaper eyeglasses, and upgrade the lighting in all their stores.

I can hear the howls of derision coming already:

==>  These "other players" will cherry pick and only invest where they can make a good return i.e. the densely populated areas

Of course they will adopt that policy.  It is a commercial decision as to where they can make a good return on said investment.

So other players can decide where they want to spend their money, and only invest where they see value, but Telecom must do as you say?

ROFL.

"All telcos are created equal, but some are more equal than others"

If you want a level playing field, you need to actually use a level...




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Reply # 50914 3-Nov-2006 13:42
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Or perhaps Telecom New Zealand is in deep thought (not to be confused with Deep Thought of THHGG fame) about itself. Note that big changes are happening there. There are people leaving the company now (including their PR person and some on their PR team) and a reorganisation seems to be in progress/finished.

Some very large corporations sometimes are not agile enough to keep sailing ahead while reinventing themselves. They can keep providing external services, but internal processes stale.

Who knows?





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Reply # 50915 3-Nov-2006 13:44
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tonyhughes:
I can hear the howls of derision coming already:

==>  These "other players" will cherry pick and only invest where they can make a good return i.e. the densely populated areas

Of course they will adopt that policy.  It is a commercial decision as to where they can make a good return on said investment.

So other players can decide where they want to spend their money, and only invest where they see value, but Telecom must do as you say?

ROFL.

"All telcos are created equal, but some are more equal than others"

If you want a level playing field, you need to actually use a level...
So true. It's like Microsoft and Apple. Apple can have a proprietary system, with a proprietary DRM platform and closed hardware. But no one complains about them, do they?





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Reply # 50916 3-Nov-2006 13:51
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i called xtra to day to ask why iam in only getting 2150kbs. They told me lots of people chnging to go large plan its gonna take about 1 to 2 months to get the speed as your line allows.

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  Reply # 50918 3-Nov-2006 13:57
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Is there anyone on TCL DSL who can add their experience? I assume TCL connects at many/most/all Telecom ATM switches and so doesn't suffer from the Telecom infrastructure congestion.




 

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  Reply # 50919 3-Nov-2006 13:59
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tonyhughes: I think they managed the investment brilliantly. When playing by their rules, things were running fine, and would have continued to do so until the launch of NGN services, whilst getting a great rate of return for the people who actually own the company

Some would say:  "an exorbitant rate of return".  It is all of us Kiwi customers of Telecom who have been paying for those "great rates of return" and the shareholder demands for fat dividends have allowed precious little of it to be invested back in.

tonyhughes: So other players can decide where they want to spend their money, and only invest where they see value, but Telecom must do as you say?

"All telcos are created equal, but some are more equal than others"

If you want a level playing field, you need to actually use a level...

Telecom have had many years to manage this investment and the mess we are now in is the end result of that process.

Whether the much hyped NGN will remedy this situation remains to be seen.

It is now time to give other players an opportunity as has been done in nearly all other Western countries (Mexico excluded).  Time will tell whether that strategy is the right one, but to continue with the status quo is not an option if we want to remain a First-world country.

freitasm: It's like Microsoft and Apple. Apple can have a proprietary system, with a proprietary DRM platform and closed hardware. But no one complains about them, do they?

That's because Microsoft or Apple are not the only games in town.  There ARE other alternatives.  But imagine if Apple OWNED all the copper lines into our homes as Telecom does.  And that Apple wouldn't let you connect any other non-Apple devices at the exchange to provide a better service.

Then I think we would start to see some complaining don't you?

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Reply # 50920 3-Nov-2006 14:14
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TinyTim: Is there anyone on TCL DSL who can add their experience? I assume TCL connects at many/most/all Telecom ATM switches and so doesn't suffer from the Telecom infrastructure congestion.


I am on TCL, 10 Mbps down, and since last week I can barely get more than 3 Mbps, when my connection was able to reach up to 7 Mbps normally. I understand though that TCL is planning some updates on their network.

How the current problems on broadband provided by TNZ impacts on TCL is still unknown.





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  Reply # 50921 3-Nov-2006 14:19
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freitasm:
TinyTim: Is there anyone on TCL DSL who can add their experience? I assume TCL connects at many/most/all Telecom ATM switches and so doesn't suffer from the Telecom infrastructure congestion.


I am on TCL, 10 Mbps down, and since last week I can barely get more than 3 Mbps, when my connection was able to reach up to 7 Mbps normally. I understand though that TCL is planning some updates on their network.

How the current problems on broadband provided by TNZ impacts on TCL is still unknown.




But you're on cable aren't you? (as I am). I was meaning the Telecom DSL they resell. I was wondering, because I assume they have more of their own infrastructure than the other resellers, if they are suffering from the same problems.

EDIT: I haven't noticed our cable slowing down. I tested it earlier this week (I think) and got 1.9 Mb/s down (on a 2 Mb/s plan) and 1 Mb/s up which seemed pretty good.




 

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  Reply # 50924 3-Nov-2006 14:23
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TinyTim: I was meaning the Telecom DSL they resell. I was wondering, because I assume they have more of their own infrastructure than the other resellers, if they are suffering from the same problems.

We are connected via Paradise Net at our Auckland Office.  I have had various discussions with TCL over the years, and their staff have told me on several occasions that TCL's resold ADSL connections still use the Telecom network.  However, the last of those discussions was prior to full-speed JetStream plans being discontinued, so I am not sure if that situation still applies.

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  Reply # 50925 3-Nov-2006 14:24
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It does appear that Telecom was caught napping as they probably never dreamt of LLU going through.

Hence their plans (read: all their eggs in one basket) to begin ADSL2+ rollouts late this year.

Thats now been pushed back because the Governemnt wanted to see "faster, cheaper Broadband" across NZ against reports (Was it Alcatel?) that the current  infrastructure couldn't support it.

My question is - for people in the know - Would the ADSL2+ have increased the backhaul channels which undoubtly is a large part of the reason why the current network is having a long and drawn out hernia?


I.e. If ADSL2+ had gone through before the "unleashing" of broadband, would there have been as big of an impact? Or on such a large scale with respect to going from 2mbps to 300-400kbps?

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