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  Reply # 51052 4-Nov-2006 21:50
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bradstewart:

Now does anyone recall Telecom warning the government that this would happen...

The infrastructure just isn't there to support everyone having fullspeed ADSL.

We were told that this was necessary for the economy or some rubbish. I can see how were are benefitting now.. not.




They claimed a spectrum issue with uncapped speeds not an issue with them being cheap and not providing enough backhaul for the go large plan they put out on their own initiative. (I'm glad they did but I and everyone could see the obvious backhaul issue coming)



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Reply # 51053 4-Nov-2006 22:03
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antigrav:

The cost of fibre is in the laying, what pisses me off is they always seem to be ripping up roads for no reason, but I doubt they are chucking fibre in there, too bad cause the fibre costs nothing.

There ought to be a law against ripping up the road and not laying fibre!

Even with the costs of laying it you make back the cost in 6 months to a year.


I'm sorry come again? You appear to be the most misinformed person I have ever come accross. Pherhaps, Instead of telling us the joys of fibre, you should visit your bank and the council and start laying your own...

Nate wants an iphone
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  Reply # 51055 4-Nov-2006 22:05
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antigrav:
But if LLU means that ISP's can offer VDSL2 or 2+ or maybe the next DSL technology which they otherwise have no way of doing then yes, It is. (it is regulation that immediatly allows brand new high preformance and affordible technology)
It means that ISP's can use parts of networks/cabling that they didn't invest it. Oh and where is that $20 million dollar investment Ihug promised? 

Or maybe we should wait for Telecom to give us VDSL, does 2020 sound good?
BTW fibre, now that's old technology, VDSL is much newer.
And if you think any ISP is going to lay copper to deliver VDSL your dreaming.

Why won't any ISP lay copper? Because they know that if they whine enough they can take it from the people whom own it!

Now fibre is better of course but for a moment compare the cost of a national fibre network to the cost of getting DSLAM's closer to the door, it doesn't take an accountant to work that one out.
I have a brilliant idea... lets regulate Telecom and make them do it! You have a car, I don't.... I demand you drive me around all day in it, don't worry I'll buy you a coffee. 

Of course ADSL2+ is so old now I question if there is any point unless Telecom can launch it everywhere by lunchtime yesterday, apparently they plan to begin next year and it doesn't sound like there is anything as firm as previous dates which have past. (plus it's covered so they have to offer it wholesale, so about now they are probably looking at dragging their heels till there is no point)
Then why is there all the fighting over pre ADSL2 connections? Why not deploy their own network in say Auckland with VDSL or ADSL2+ and beat Telecom on 'performance'?? 






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Reply # 51058 4-Nov-2006 22:21
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antigrav:
cokemaster: LLU is not technology, its just a process where a competitor connects up someone elses phonelines to his equipment.

Those other technologies already exist and nothing is stopping a competitor from using those technologies... if they had the will to invest instead of fighting over old technology which is likely to pull us back more.


But if LLU means that ISP's can offer VDSL2 or 2+ or maybe the next DSL technology which they otherwise have no way of doing then yes, It is. (it is regulation that immediatly allows brand new high preformance and affordible technology)



No, regulation does not mean ISPs can offer VDSL2 or 2+. It means it can provide this with someone else's investment. Just whine a bit and you can have it.








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Reply # 51059 4-Nov-2006 22:23
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antigrav: Even with the costs of laying it you make back the cost in 6 months to a year.

All that is needed is a modicum of organization because if you build FTTP rather than have an ISP do it you pay once, after a year your connection is free, check out that power point presentation.

Enough to make me reach for a spade!



What can I say? Making money back in 6 months on the invesment of laying a new network? No, that's simply wrong economics.





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Reply # 51060 4-Nov-2006 22:24
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kwaan: Lets all just finish our arguments here and blame telecom and theresea gattueng for the rest of our lives to hold back NZ from being a developed technological country.....

You are joking right? This is the most off topic comment I've seen in the last few days around here.





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  Reply # 51063 4-Nov-2006 22:58
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JAMMAN2110

I'm sorry come again? You appear to be the most misinformed person I have ever come accross. Pherhaps, Instead of telling us the joys of fibre, you should visit your bank and the council and start laying your own...


Funny, I was just thinking that of you!

Fibre costs as little as 5 (US) cents a strand per meter, that's like 196 strand fibre or something.
Read the power point presentation.


cokemaster
It means that ISP's can use parts of networks/cabling that they didn't invest it. Oh and where is that $20 million dollar investment Ihug promised?


You'd think we were the first country to unbundle, not the last!
Your begining to make me seriously depressed, it must be people like you that stopped unbundling years ago.
As for the investment ihug promised, shouldn't we wait for the local loop to be unbundled first?
though with new ownership I an wondering about that myself.


cokemaster
Why won't any ISP lay copper? Because they know that if they whine enough they can take it from the people whom own it!


Because we already have copper, it's just sitting there being seriously underutilized.
Your not connected to reality if you think with the threat of LLU making it pointless, and with the huge power Telecom had to do whatever anticompetitive things (the government judges it as anticompetitive, but not some on here) it liked that an ISP would lay copper.

Are you actually one of the geeks of the Telecom ads?

It was our copper remember!


cokemaster
Then why is there all the fighting over pre ADSL2 connections? Why not deploy their own network in say Auckland with VDSL or ADSL2+ and beat Telecom on 'performance'??


LLU hasn't come into effect yet, but that's exactly what orcon is trying to do.


freitasm
No, regulation does not mean ISPs can offer VDSL2 or 2+. It means it can provide this with someone else's investment. Just whine a bit and you can have it.


Er, yes it does.
It allows Orcon, ihug, Slingshot, Woosh and any other ISP's to have their own dslams, their own cabnets etc...


freitasm
What can I say? Making money back in 6 months on the invesment of laying a new network? No, that's simply wrong economics.


You'd rather pay for crappy broadband for the rest of your life than make a 6 month outlay? (or sort out a loan)
But of course you weren't questioning if that makes economic sense, you were saying that the figures are wrong, well disprove it.
Go over the power point presentation, the distances covered, the cost of fibre they stated and compare it with what you believe the cost of fibre to be.
Do all of that and only then may I POSSIBLY give you more creedance than the people who have actually laid fibre! (but I doubt it)

The cost of fibre is as little as 5c a strand/m btw.

Suddenly I need a shower, seriously does Telecom pay you guys?
Or do you just own lots of their stocks?

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Reply # 51064 4-Nov-2006 23:05
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antigrav: Are you actually one of the geeks of the Telecom ads?

antigrav: Suddenly I need a shower, seriously does Telecom pay you guys? Or do you just own lots of their stocks?


You like insulting people around don't you? You sir is officially a troll.

As far as I know, no one here own stocks on Telecom, and if they do is not of your business.

Also, for your information, if people around here get a pay from Telecom, is not of your business. I certainly don't.

Don't feed the troll!








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  Reply # 51065 4-Nov-2006 23:08
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antigrav:

JAMMAN2110

I'm sorry come again? You appear to be the most misinformed person I have ever come accross. Pherhaps, Instead of telling us the joys of fibre, you should visit your bank and the council and start laying your own...


Funny, I was just thinking that of you!

Fibre costs as little as 5 (US) cents a strand per meter, that's like 196 strand fibre or something.
Read the power point presentation.



Maybe you could shop around and get a better deal? 5 cents a metre is a bit steep .. (lets ignore the part where we run it accross and around the many kilometres our country has to offer us shall we...

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Reply # 51066 4-Nov-2006 23:08
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antigrav: It was our copper remember!


It was. The government sold it. It's no longer. The money changed hands.





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