VDSL Performance & Tuning

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'That VDSL Cat'
10999 posts

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Spark

Subscriber

# 865329 24-Jul-2013 19:33

so, had a odd resync today.. no log of it in the modems logs, nor was there a ip change, drop of active connections or anything..

large drop in errors all of a sudden though.

dsl stats didnt change one bit too..

quite an odd resync if one did actually occur...

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

seatil

40 posts

Geek

# 865612 25-Jul-2013 09:42

I've noticed similar after the Fritz box has been running for a while, in so much that I see syncs that don't have corresponding log entries.

However, in my case I have an automated script that logs into the Fritz web interface every 5 minutes and extracts a ton of stats from it. Each of those logins creates a log entry. I'm assuming that whatever storage is being used for the log entries has filled up and no further entries are being stored, or something similar.

Dairusire

194 posts

Master Geek

# 865631 25-Jul-2013 09:51

^ makes the most sense really

smac

267 posts

Ultimate Geek

# 865683 25-Jul-2013 10:38

I have a couple of VDSL questions, hopefully this is the place.

We currently have snap ADSL2 plus phone, and I'm looking at the viability of moving to VDSL.

I guess what I'm wanting to figure out is what kind of performance I can expect, given our location etc. The stats from the router at the moment are:

Not overly worried about download, more about quality and upload as I do some video conference work. Although improved upload might get me more interested in off-site backups etc.

Secondly, if we have no phone of any kind (either VOIP or landline) would we be better off not using a master splitter? i.e just cat cable straight from outside to the router? Or does snap insist on an install?

Thanks very much, please let me know if I need to provide more info.

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
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# 865699 25-Jul-2013 10:56

seatil: I've noticed similar after the Fritz box has been running for a while, in so much that I see syncs that don't have corresponding log entries.

However, in my case I have an automated script that logs into the Fritz web interface every 5 minutes and extracts a ton of stats from it. Each of those logins creates a log entry. I'm assuming that whatever storage is being used for the log entries has filled up and no further entries are being stored, or something similar.

yep, it tends to trim the logs as it fulls up, i have a "keep alive" timer on my logs, every 4 mins or so, so it keeps the same session id, and doesnt need to start another log entry, leaving only wlan log enties to clutter the log..

i have noticed this happen a few times before too, but never got any decent screenshots of it till now.. quite an odd resync indeed..

smac: I have a couple of VDSL questions, hopefully this is the place.

We currently have snap ADSL2 plus phone, and I'm looking at the viability of moving to VDSL.

I guess what I'm wanting to figure out is what kind of performance I can expect, given our location etc. The stats from the router at the moment are:

Not overly worried about download, more about quality and upload as I do some video conference work. Although improved upload might get me more interested in off-site backups etc.

Secondly, if we have no phone of any kind (either VOIP or landline) would we be better off not using a master splitter? i.e just cat cable straight from outside to the router? Or does snap insist on an install?

Thanks very much, please let me know if I need to provide more info.

at 9db attention, ild expect the download to be a bit higher.. but since you dont have a master filter currently, its kinda to be expected.

you should have no issue getting the whole 10mbit upload.

with the changes to vdsl installations, a splitter may be insisted.. im not sure on that though.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

stevehodge

393 posts

Ultimate Geek

# 865701 25-Jul-2013 10:58

smac: I guess what I'm wanting to figure out is what kind of performance I can expect, given our location etc. The stats from the router at the moment are:

...

Not overly worried about download, more about quality and upload as I do some video conference work. Although improved upload might get me more interested in off-site backups etc.

Secondly, if we have no phone of any kind (either VOIP or landline) would we be better off not using a master splitter? i.e just cat cable straight from outside to the router? Or does snap insist on an install?

The 9 db attenuation you have under ADSL will correspond to about 12-14 db under VDSL I would expect. That should mean about 30-40 Mbps downstream sync and you'll get the full 10 Mbps upstream.

If you bypass the existing wiring (i.e. connect the modem directly to the incoming pair) then you don't need a master splitter. It won't make any difference either way.

smac

267 posts

Ultimate Geek

# 865795 25-Jul-2013 12:23

hio77: at 9db attention, i'd expect the download to be a bit higher.. but since you dont have a master filter currently, its kinda to be expected.

you should have no issue getting the whole 10mbit upload.

with the changes to vdsl installations, a splitter may be insisted.. im not sure on that though.

Yeah the whole no filter thing was a mess. When we built we inherited the builder's sparky, who knew nothing about network. Couldn't answer any questions or make any customisations, so in the end I just said put in the cable and get out. Had VOIP, so filter didn't matter. I can put one in, no drama.

stevehodge: The 9 db attenuation you have under ADSL will correspond to about 12-14 db under VDSL I would expect. That should mean about 30-40 Mbps downstream sync and you'll get the full 10 Mbps upstream.

If you bypass the existing wiring (i.e. connect the modem directly to the incoming pair) then you don't need a master splitter. It won't make any difference either way.

Thanks for that. Looks to be the go, now just have to sell the $$ to wifie ;)

sidefx

3311 posts

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# 865858 25-Jul-2013 13:30

smac:
stevehodge: The 9 db attenuation you have under ADSL will correspond to about 12-14 db under VDSL I would expect. That should mean about 30-40 Mbps downstream sync and you'll get the full 10 Mbps upstream.If you bypass the existing wiring (i.e. connect the modem directly to the incoming pair) then you don't need a master splitter. It won't make any difference either way.

Thanks for that. Looks to be the go, now just have to sell the $$ to wifie ;)

Sounds very similar to my line, and steve's estimates sound bang on. I had 9db on ADSL, 12db now and get ~36-37 on the default SNR Margin and ~44 with SNR tweaking. Also get the full 10 up. As for convincing the wifie, one good selling point is how much faster uploading photos or videos to the cloud is. :)

helis

96 posts

Master Geek

# 865947 25-Jul-2013 15:19

So I've been on 43Mbps sync and DLM1 for some time. I had a CRCpm of 3.

Then just now I connect up and look what happened this morning. I've never had a sync this high nor have I changed anything on my router this year.

This is my speed test. I've also never seen speeds this high before.

Not sure what is happening here but It's got me a bit worried. I'm not sure if I should reboot it tonight after work to see what happens or if i should just leave it and get the router do its thing.

Found this in the logs too.
25.07.1303:02:45DSL is available (DSL synchronization exists with 48296/10360 kbit/s).
25.07.1303:02:30DSL synchronization starting (training).
25.07.1302:59:32DSL not responding (no DSL synchronization).
25.07.1302:59:23PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:59:09PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:58:56PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:58:43PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:58:29PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:58:16PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:58:02PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:57:49PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:57:35PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:57:22PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:57:08PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:56:55PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:56:42PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:56:28PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:56:15PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:56:01PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:55:48PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:55:34PPPoE error: Timeout.
25.07.1302:55:21Timeout during PPP negotiation.
25.07.1302:55:21Internet connection cleared.
25.07.1302:55:21IPv6 Internet connection was cleared; prefix no longer valid.

HiTM4N

255 posts

Ultimate Geek

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# 865959 25-Jul-2013 15:37

It looks like DLM is just doing it's thing. It'll probably resync again tonight with those errors and put you back to your old speeds

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helis

96 posts

Master Geek

# 865960 25-Jul-2013 15:40

HiTM4N: It looks like DLM is just doing it's thing. It'll probably resync again tonight with those errors and put you back to your old speeds

I was already on DLM1. Its just weird the SNR is now dropping down to 1 and also the spectrum graph is not looking correct anymore either.

seatil

40 posts

Geek

# 865972 25-Jul-2013 15:51

@helis: Assuming you haven't done any SNRM tweaks, the target SNRM at sync time is 12dB. The fact that the current SNRM is at 1dB indicates that line conditions have changed since the sync. My best guess would be that the resync occurred during a brief period where the line was cleaner than usual, resulting in the higher than normal sync rate with 12dB SNRM. However, conditions returned to normal very soon afterwards as evidenced by the hourly graphs, and now, sitting on 1dB, that connection is holding sync by the skin of its teeth.

Other less likely option was that the modem was on something during the resync and for some reason synced higher than it should have given the line conditions at the time. :D

I would expect your line to resync of its own volition in the near future, with a new sync rate closer to what you normally see. Or to have a resync forced on it DLM as a result of the increased error rate. Personally I'd be sticking my fingers into the pie and forcing a resync on it myself to avoid DLM getting all excited and downgrading the profile. But I'm not known for patience. ;)

sidefx

3311 posts

Uber Geek

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# 865982 25-Jul-2013 16:09

Might be worth looking back at some of the previous posts covering odd behaviour before a change to 17a; I'm trying to remember what they looked like.

helis

96 posts

Master Geek

# 866006 25-Jul-2013 16:34

I rebooted. I'm now back at 43Mbps sync with everything looking good. I'm still on DLM1 as well. Was nice to see 7MB/s down speeds if only for a short while lol

RickW

250 posts

Master Geek

# 866026 25-Jul-2013 17:05

Hay guys we have just recently joined snap for vdsl and voip and are looking for any advice of how to increase our speed. From the demarc box on the side of the house we have a single cat 6 cable going to a dedicated rj45 jack that the fritzbox is connected to. the chorus tech said that we are about 400m from the roadside cabinet but our sync rates are only 20 down and 6 up. Here are the line stats. Any advice is appreciated.

Receive Direction Send Direction
Max. DSLAM throughput kbit/s 70000 10360
Min. DSLAM throughput kbit/s 360 360
Attainable throughput kbit/s 20092 6312
Current throughput kbit/s 20032 6288

Latency fast fast
Bitswap on off
Impulse Noise Protection 0.1 0.1

Signal-to-noise ratio dB 12 12
Line attenuation dB 22 102
Carrier record A43 A43
Profile 8b

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