VDSL Performance & Tuning

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'That VDSL Cat'
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# 901590 24-Sep-2013 00:18

got plent of weird stuff happening with my new connection too, 2K CRCPM! stable enough to disconnect within seconds, ill post some nice eyecandy of it once im off phone internet... spent close on 2 hours trying to upload screenshots alone..

+1 for choruses awesome installs right?

in terms of firmware, i had to drop back to the older firmware for the linecard to stop slaying the modem after its second resync each reboot.. now im blowing stupid amounts of resyncs each hour right now.. they are most defiantly gonna be resetting dlm before leaving tommorrow........

so, as im typing this, pulled out the laptop, syncing at 1.7mbit down now (down from the solid 45mbits ealier...) WOW.

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hio77

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# 901596 24-Sep-2013 01:02

ok, so here goes..

so, install day today, hit a few bumps in the road with miss communication of the request to be afternoon (i had exam commitments to meet, early this morning, and snap couldnt move the date back a day unfortunately.. which was kinda the purpose of organizing it 2 weeks in advance... )

so, walking into exam and get a phonecall, your not here for the vdsl install.. thankfully, the guy said he *MAY* be able to fit me in in the afternoon.

come the afternoon, the guy passes the job onto someone who was clearly a trainee (he spent the whole time on the phone being commanded what to do, and clearly didnt know when not to try feeding someone who knows better rubbish..)

after many visits to the cabinet, including realising, he had the wrong cable ids (which he drove to! its not even a minute walk! wheres the green sense in these people!)

no fresh cat5e run, no checks about the alarm system - which i cant confirm is hardwired in, however i made it clear to him.

he walked in, saw jackpoints next to the spot for the modem and went ar! this is my only work area.

now, personally, his work ethic? doesnt quite align with me, the way the work was carried out was shobby to say the least, but is this to be expected?

do excuse the photos, the camera is currently in a box somewhere......

This is the "master jack" - how hes sure of that appart from other jacks branch off this, i am unsure of.. he certainly didnt look.

if you ask me, this is just asking to get yanked on, kicked, damaged in some form - arent these designed to be inside the ETP.. pretty sure they are...

the cable that goes to the left contains the dsl line, leaving this jackpoint to be a phone line and he freely admitted the third jackpoint he just did away with..

now we come to the "dsl jack"

use was made of the second pair for this, if i understood through his garbage talking.

a close up of the second jack he put up the top, which i was surprised he added (rj45 jack at that) after watching him do the first jack..

once again, it just looks a tad shobbly done.. cables poking and all.

so with all the done, it was the exciting wait for the connection to pop up..

apparently this wasnt very clear that something was wrong, and it was all the modems fault "snap have said themselves, these modems take up to 6 hours to connect"

i called his bluff outright, that modem has been my baby the last 6 months.. know it pretty well to say, that isnt the case.

i was told, if its not syncing properly after an hour, call them (the tech) back, so come 2.30pm, that was done. greeted with a "yes, ill be there in about an hour".

4 hours later, i tried to make contact with that tech again, simply to find out, hey, are you coming or can i go get my dinner without having to scream back at a moments notice.. i was meet with no response - afterall, he had been 12 hours working by this point, no way possible that hes still working right? i was simply looking for the common courtesy of, hey, i wont make it. afterall, i was sitting there waiting upon his "be there in an hour".
now, i know techs get caught up, so there wasnt any reason for me to be drumming on him after that hour was up in my opinion..

after talking to snap about this, it was actually an incompatibility with some line cards, affecting sync rates and errors for the most part. for the point of the argument and my egarness to maybe, i dont know, use the connection... i spent the hour or so to download the firmware on phone internet (areas cell towers seem pretty loaded, gotten the "our network is too busy" line a few times while making calls)

so, going back to the .51 firmware for a sec here... - little footnote, these were spread across many syncs, only had a window of about 2 seconds to screencap before it died and ild need to physically reboot the modem again.

back to the old firmware now, where i could actually capture a CRCPM..

YES indeed, that does say 2K CRCPM (right before nosediving, afterall, 2K CRCPM on DLM-1 in the space of the first few seconds, ofcourse DLM is gonna throw its boot)

so, after that crash and dying a few times, i got to the point of "bugger it" its 8.30, and im hungry for dinner...

left it to resync like crazy..

look at all thoses resyncs... :/

then as writing the post above, i notice this....

yes, my attention did range from 4 to 7db between all the images.. anyone wanna scream line issue?

so, what have i learnt here.. firstly, the 51 firmware shouldnt be trusted, it creates even more issues to deal with when your having them.

secondly, there seems to be a reason why vdsl splitter installations are part of the price, and apparently its so monkey puppets can be commanded to complete a job... i suspect ill end up having to get the barron in after they do their bit, give things a once over and a fix up....

im just.... out of words for it now..

the wonderful world of a vdsl connection right!

im scared as to whats gonna happen to my poor connection come 4.12am... lawl.

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Vladmax

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# 902041 24-Sep-2013 20:02

That install is shocking, just look at the quality of the workmanship.... the installer guy must have been working on the farm all his life and just recently got a job in telco.... by accident. Even saying that would be an abuse to any farmer as I recon any farmer will have skills and ability to do way-way better than that.

Vladmax

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# 902044 24-Sep-2013 20:07

stevehodge:
Vladmax: FritzBox re-synced about 3 days ago, besides sync rate drop from 47 to 43 also got the unusual readings again. Any comments?

Latency is not 1, 8 or 16 - it's just "fast" :)
SNR is not 12 or 9 - it's 13

Also SNR on "Statistic" tab doesn't seem to match SNR on DSL tab...

Latency showing "fast" is a symptom of having the latest firmware. I believe "fast" corresponds to 1ms though I don't think anyone has actually reported anything different. It's possible the drop in sync speed is due to the new firmware as well - it does seem to be a bit slower in some situations. It could also just be a bad sync.

Your error rate looks worrying. 4 CRC per minute is ok (but not great), however it doesn't match what the graph is showing which is more like 12-15 per minute. I'd tend to believe the graph. We think 12-15 CRC/min is above the limit for staying on DLM-1.

SNR on the DSL page is "signal to noise margin" which is you can think of as the padding over the minimum signal required for the current sync rate. It's headroom so that the connection is less likely to drop if line conditions worsen. Don't worry if it's not exactly 12 db, 12 db is the target but it can vary with conditions and it's not uncommon for it to be out by 1 or 2 db.

SNR on the statistic tab is the real "signal to noise ratio" at each frequency. Your SNR graph looks very similar to mine on 8b when I was getting 48 Mbps downstream sync. Your 43 Mpbs does seem a little low (though my attenuation was better than yours).

Not sure what to say in terms of recommendations. I'd probably try a reboot just to see if it helps. I don't yet trust the new firmware either so I might be inclined to try reverting to the previous version, at least if you were seeing 1ms before on the DSL tab and now have "fast" (which would indicate a firmware upgrade).

Thanks for your details explanation dude, appreciate the info, very interesting. The connection is stable and is faster then 90% of New Zealand according to Speedtest.Net, so I'm happy with it and don't really want to start fiddling with firmwares and other tweaks just to push it 2-4mbsp further. I might try to get it re-synced at higher rate one day though, but can't be bothered at the moment. All I need to do online goes very well and perfectly fast.

hio77

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# 902048 24-Sep-2013 20:19

Vladmax: That install is shocking, just look at the quality of the workmanship.... the installer guy must have been working on the farm all his life and just recently got a job in telco.... by accident. Even saying that would be an abuse to any farmer as I recon any farmer will have skills and ability to do way-way better than that.

mhm.. part of the reasoning behind posting the pictures, i wanted to make sure i wasnt being unreasonable in my expectations.. would seem, i was not.... as i said, the whole time he was on the phone being told what to do... he did not appreciate my mention that maybe he didnt wire things correctly..

i suspect its iver the alarm (which im unaware if its hooked into the phone line, but i did make him well aware it was there.) or the cable from the ETP to the jack... the whole splitter at the jack thing just urks me something crazy.

was hopeful i would have had my connection checked out today, afterall, i was told by the tech yesterday before he stopped responding he would be over that day.

spent all of today home after logging the fault and going over my concerns last night.. but unfortunately, chorus clearly couldnt fit it in today... hopefully snap have an update from chorus for me to squeeze out tonight though..

the bit that disappoints me the most, the amount of crap snap takes due to messups such as this.. by chorus... biting that we may be charging you the call out fee bullet for getting them out to fix a substandard installation can be pretty hard..

i just truly wish, the guy actually had the gear and the knowhow to test the connection with their own device, after clearly seeing that it wasnt holding sync and there was something wrong. "that modem does this for the first 6 months" is just utter rubbish to give out..

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Psilan

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# 902055 24-Sep-2013 20:31

Have worked with cabling techs for 4.5 years that would never do anything like that.
It is so lazy, and I think he must be doing these jobs as quick as possible, with minimal costs.

Lots of steps in this job where he has saved himself using parts.

hio77

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# 902060 24-Sep-2013 20:44

Psilan: Have worked with cabling techs for 4.5 years that would never do anything like that.
It is so lazy, and I think he must be doing these jobs as quick as possible, with minimal costs.

Lots of steps in this job where he has saved himself using parts.

at the end of the day, i would have been disgruntled at the lack of effort, but happily been done with it. if it wasnt for the fact that the connection itself is hardly breaking 1mbit..

plenty of options for cleaning it up at a later date if need be.. i do respect that a quick install is good for most installations..

does bring the question though, isnt the point of the combined installation to count out the issues bad internal wiring causes? doesnt that kinda make the question of if you installed a splitter to count out internal wiring a tad... moot?

sure, inflictions past that jackpoint are much better, but if something is causing them before that jackpoint.. have yourself a bit of an issue..

originally, i was gonna have coffeebarron come do the splitter, his work is the sort of standard ild expect. but the free installation, was quite a hard fact to argue against....

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Vladmax

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# 902061 24-Sep-2013 20:44

Hey, on this page http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=102654 you will find 2 pictures, both are of your Telecom demarcation point (closed and undone). You should have a box like this outside the house and that where the VDSL splitter needs to go. They use tri-wing security screws to secure the cap, but you can get a screw bit from JARussel if you want to get in. There will be a black gel filled cable which is your incoming line, the rest is your house wiring... everything needs to be disconnected from the incoming cable and the splitter goes in between the incoming and the rest. For you VDSL modem you need to run new CAT5 or CAT6 from that point to wherever the jack for the modem is going to be.

Another proof of that is if you look at the shape of the VDSL splitter you will see that it has a couple of cutouts on the bottom part, then you will realize that it is actually designed to fit into the box on the pictures mentioned above. As it will sit snugly in there and the cutouts on the sides are so that the splitter fits around the box's screw channels once inside.

I'm speculating here, but the thing is that you may still have something else connected at the real demarcation point of yours... and putting the splitter in where it is now might even make it worse and you may experience weird things. There could also be another 10 or 20 or even more meters of crappy old copper between where you've got the splitter and real demarcation point.

Go round the house, do an inspection, look thoroughly for the demarcation point box, then go from there.

hio77

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# 902066 24-Sep-2013 20:55

Vladmax: Hey, on this page http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=102654 you will find 2 pictures, both are of your Telecom demarcation point (closed and undone). You should have a box like this outside the house and that where the VDSL splitter needs to go. They use tri-wing security screws to secure the cap, but you can get a screw bit from JARussel if you want to get in. There will be a black gel filled cable which is your incoming line, the rest is your house wiring... everything needs to be disconnected from the incoming cable and the splitter goes in between the incoming and the rest. For you VDSL modem you need to run new CAT5 or CAT6 from that point to wherever the jack for the modem is going to be.

Another proof of that is if you look at the shape of the VDSL splitter you will see that it has a couple of cutouts on the bottom part, then you will realize that it is actually designed to fit into the box on the pictures mentioned above. As it will sit snugly in there and the cutouts on the sides are so that the splitter fits around the box's screw channels once inside.

I'm speculating here, but the thing is that you may still have something else connected at the real demarcation point of yours... and putting the splitter in where it is now might even make it worse and you may experience weird things. There could also be another 10 or 20 or even more meters of crappy old copper between where you've got the splitter and real demarcation point.

Go round the house, do an inspection, look thoroughly for the demarcation point box, then go from there.

kinda my point. now, ild accept it being inside considering there is some odd cable guard thing over the etp.. ill snap a photo tomorrow when its hopefully not pouring down and light.. but then, a fresh cable should have been ran from the etp even moreso..

i know how to do a splitter, i have done a few, but i dont particularly like to do it. that way my wiring cant be to "blame for"

hopefully we come across the box with the touch tonight so i can check out under the house properly.

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Psilan

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# 902068 24-Sep-2013 20:56

I don't know why else it's not going well, but I just wanted to comment on the shoddy workmanship.
Do they get paid per install like SkyTV installers? I would still complain. Show Snap at least. It's shoddy work.

chevrolux

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# 902072 24-Sep-2013 21:03

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That install is rubbish. I have done this work and understand the immense time pressures but I can say I never felt under pressure enough to simply hang the splitter off the side. As for smashing that RJ45 above the jack you would think they could atleast try squaring it up.

Seeing as the underground probably comes directly to the jack in your instance, and it looks like you have wooden floors which I assume you can get under (?). I would have created an ETP to house the splitter and then run a new cable to where you wanted to the DSL. The reality is this doesn't actually take much longer and gives a far nicer result.

I would be getting Chorus back to sort it out.

Just out of interest, what area of the country are you in?

hio77

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# 902073 24-Sep-2013 21:04

Psilan: I don't know why else it's not going well, but I just wanted to comment on the shoddy workmanship.
Do they get paid per install like SkyTV installers? I would still complain. Show Snap at least. It's shoddy work.

brings the question, do snap have a email address you can send stuff to? ild love to show it off, might add a bit of footing to my argument that it was a poor installation..

there was a thread recently talking about chorus getting paid, was some pretty controversial facts pulled out in it ill see if i cant dig it up..

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hio77

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# 902090 24-Sep-2013 21:38

chevrolux: That install is rubbish. I have done this work and understand the immense time pressures but I can say I never felt under pressure enough to simply hang the splitter off the side. As for smashing that RJ45 above the jack you would think they could atleast try squaring it up.

Seeing as the underground probably comes directly to the jack in your instance, and it looks like you have wooden floors which I assume you can get under (?). I would have created an ETP to house the splitter and then run a new cable to where you wanted to the DSL. The reality is this doesn't actually take much longer and gives a far nicer result.

I would be getting Chorus back to sort it out.

Just out of interest, what area of the country are you in?

wooden floors indeed, a meter or so off the ground at the point where the jackpoints are(slanted.. at the ETP end, easily an average 1 story off the ground.), with easy access under the house.

two jackpoints here, i question, why two at all... i made the assumption the one on the left was the master, not the right and so i said that one considering the state the right jackpoint was in when we got into the place

the picture doesnt exactly show how dodgy it looked at first. the chorus tech adjusted it slightly, put it into a new hole. saved him replacing it..

there is one other jackpoint in the house, the chorus tech disconnected it, and did not reconnect it - if we are gonna go to that lazyness, why not have a direct connection to the ETP though right? the point of doing a whole splitter and all is it being a rental, you wanna leave the place in better working condition than when you arrived right?

oh, and as for the ETP, last i checked, little yellow looking speaker wire isnt what you use for phonelines (opened up the "master socket")

this brings me to the odd looking cat3 and speaker looking wire join in the hot water cupboard.. i suspected this cable was for the alarm as it goes to the roof from the floor, but im beginning to start rethinking it now..

the mear sight of the cable in the "master jackpoint" screams dodgy cable needing look at under house..

im located in New Lynn, Auckland on parker ave, Titirangi end. as the crow flys , 80M from the cabinet..

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hio77

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# 902091 24-Sep-2013 21:46

ok, seems i cant edit posts without getting a cloudfare security error...

one thing i missed mentioning, i didnt think the battery things were very good for dsl at all...

heres the picture, with the incomming line circled..

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Psilan

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# 902092 24-Sep-2013 21:46

Doesn't look as terrible from those photos. Lots of excessive cabling.
What the hell is going on next to your green singlet?

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