Why the secrecy around port waiting?

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raytaylor

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# 685532 13-Sep-2012 13:02

+1 to that

Ray Taylor
Taylor Broadband (rural hawkes bay)
www.ruralkiwi.com

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mwtb

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# 685561 13-Sep-2012 13:22

"If your ISP were to tell you right now that you are seventh in the queue, how would that help you determine whether you've got to wait another week or another month? Your position in the queue doesn't really tell you much. "

Your position in the queue (or the length of the queue if you haven't yet requested connection) plus the current longest waiter is as good as it gets as far as getting an idea of the potential wait time through attrition. Further, while you are on the waiting list, being able to keep up-to-date with the movements of the queue both let you know how attrition is playing out and whether you're being subjected to queue shuffling as mentioned previously.

No, it's not going to give you an exact date but if you're looking at moving, the pros and cons of signing an expensive wireless connection contract, or simply wanting to keep track of what's going on then it (along with upgrade plans) is very useful to know.

DonGould

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# 685614 13-Sep-2012 14:34

ok way to many tin foil hats on this thread!

Chorus could fix this problem in a heart beat but it's expensive and pointless.

The cost of the development time for what is only going to be a very short term problem really doesn't justify the expense.

Once Chorus have developed an api to provide RSPs with the data you're asking for, then the RSPs would then have to interface that data and present it to the users in some way.

In the mean time Chorus are pushing out more RSCs all the time, so the problem gets less and less. On top of that WISPs are getting more and more traction, which is taking more and more load off the NGN network.

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mwtb

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# 685697 13-Sep-2012 16:38

Expensive? Only if their backend systems are so disconnected that it's some kind of major engineering job to simply link the address check through to the servicing exchange/cabinet and pull the wait info. Those data relationships must already exist unless they track the wait list by hand.

Pointless? For who? I won't bother repeating why it has a point, I've stated it several times already.

I'm sure you're right that the real reason is just organisational apathy and lack of a profit motive but I don't understand the dismissive response (or the tin foil hat comment, what are you on about?). The problem is reducing, yes, but the cabinets will be rolling out for a while yet. Even then are they going to provide 100% capacity everywhere?

DonGould

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# 685750 13-Sep-2012 18:50

mwtb: Expensive? Only if their backend systems are so disconnected that it's some kind of major engineering job to simply link the address check through to the servicing exchange/cabinet and pull the wait info. Those data relationships must already exist unless they track the wait list by hand.

You're talking about $10,000 of work just by Chorus, or more, assuming the data can all be pulled just as easy as you suggest.

It then has to be pushed into an API format that the RSPs agree on.

That then had to be documented.

Then the RSPs have to write systems to read the changes in the API and push that to the front of their systems.

For Telecom, I'd expect that to be $50,000 of work alone if you expect to see it pushed to a customer facing web site.

Good luck getting it done at TelstraClear, Orcon will have it sorted before Chorus have even finished the API and I have no idea about your luck with Vodafone, Snap or Slingshot.

mwtb: Pointless? For who? I won't bother repeating why it has a point, I've stated it several times already.

It's pointless for Chorus and the RSPs. I acknowledge better information would be helpful for you to figure out if it's worth spending the $500 some WISPs charge for installation.

By the time Chorus and the RSPs get it implemented, it's life will almost be over.

mwtb: I'm sure you're right that the real reason is just organisational apathy and lack of a profit motive but I don't understand the dismissive response (or the tin foil hat comment, what are you on about?). The problem is reducing, yes, but the cabinets will be rolling out for a while yet. Even then are they going to provide 100% capacity everywhere?

You're right. It is organizational apathy and a lack of profit to motivate the development.

Your title "Why the secrecy around port waiting?" suggested to me that theirs some secret corporate reasoning behind the data not being published. Such thought really stuck me as a tinfoil hat theory. As a master of TFH theory, I think I called this one.

Finally, yes, I do think that eventually every part of the network will have more capacity than their is demand where there is also copper that's still viable to put DSL on.

Those RSC's have a reasonable life but they're already being over built now with the fibre so resources in them will be relocatable sooner than later I think.

D

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mwtb

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# 685761 13-Sep-2012 19:57

You can think you called whatever you like but there's no conspiracy theory. The question is quite plain: why isn't this just part of the publicly available data in the same way the broadband availability or RBI rollout plan is?

If the answer you're putting forward is: Chorus probably can't be arsed because they don't see it as worthwhile, sure I can believe it. I can't say I'm convinced that the attitude is correct though and wrapping it in implications that there's something fundamentally screwy about even suggesting that the data might be less available than it should be doesn't help.

sbiddle

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# 685763 13-Sep-2012 20:14

I can assure you that from a typical ISP's perspective a change request for this would probably rank a few hundred down a list of system changes when it comes to importance. You might see it as an important issue but the simple reality is in the real world really is of no significance at all and there are many, many, many systems that with Chorus and ISP's have to work with on a daily basis that are should be fixed first .

The reality is wait listing is really only a common occurance in rural areas, and the number of people on wait lists is minimal compared to the significant numbers before the cabinetisation project.

DonGould

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# 685766 13-Sep-2012 20:20

mwtb: You can think you called whatever you like but there's no conspiracy theory. The question is quite plain: why isn't this just part of the publicly available data in the same way the broadband availability or RBI rollout plan is?

Again, because it costs money to public data like this.

mwtb: If the answer you're putting forward is: Chorus probably can't be arsed because they don't see it as worthwhile, sure I can believe it. I can't say I'm convinced that the attitude is correct though and wrapping it in implications that there's something fundamentally screwy about even suggesting that the data might be less available than it should be doesn't help.

- my underline...

You read the comments of others about perception of ISP competitive issues.

I don't know if you're ever talked with Chorus. I have a few times and I can tell you those guys leave me with the impression of being battle warn and just totally over the whole information provision space.

Is it any wonder?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10700323 - Telecom data breach prompts warning

Personally I agree with you. All the data about these resources should be out there in plain view.

Telecom put its database out there for the benefit of technical and provisioning teams and a marketing company came in and just used it for a completely unintended purpose, stuffing up life for everyone else and making it harder.

You are paying the price today for this sort of stuff.

I agree, it's a pain.

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DonGould

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# 685768 13-Sep-2012 20:25

sbiddle: The reality is wait listing is really only a common occurance in rural areas, and the number of people on wait lists is minimal compared to the significant numbers before the cabinetisation project.

...and if it's such a big rural problem, why don't the rural folk hire a programmer and write a system for customers to lodge themselves as waiters?

Wonder how useful the WISPs would find that in getting customers connected and how helpful it would be to customers such as the OP to understand how many other folk exist in his community that aren't connected?

Why does this all just fall on Chorus or the RSP he just happened to choose?

Why not just have a blanket rule - Ring Orcon and they manage all the port waitings and then once you're connected you can move to another ISP if you choose?

This way, it would be a really simple process for Orcon to just manage the waiting list and present a public facing system to keep customers up to date.

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DravidDavid

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# 685908 14-Sep-2012 09:46

I'm not sure if this has been covered already, but based on my limited experience as a tech...You ask your ISP for your position in the que, the emails for port waiters is checked and you get your answer. Emails are updated two or three times a week as previously mentioned.

No conspiracy. Call and ask. :)

Don't quote me on this, but I believe there is also an ETA attached. Not that it is likely to be accurate. I do believe one customer I spoke to was second in the que and was given an ETA of 2025.

Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

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