How do they count the price?

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126 posts

Master Geek

#726097 3-Dec-2012 12:37

kobiak:
spoonboy:
DonGould: What does Slingshot's unlimited plan cost?

90 NZD, but the speed is not guaranteed.

neither Denmarks 10mbit unlimited DSL is.

True, but apparently the Denmark provider doesn't even offer limited plans.So, ok, I can accept this. Still, 90 NZD in Slingshot and 42 NZD in Denmark provider.

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surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#726098 3-Dec-2012 12:38

spoonboy:

This has all been discussed a great deal, and usually ends up being due to economies of scale , population distribution, and geographical convenience.

Yes, and the outcome of the discussions was the decision made by CC that the prices should be comparable to the similar countries. The CC doc goes through the list of the countries and identifies Denmark as most suitable for being used as a price template that should be adopted by NZ. So, I expected the NZ would have the Denmark price at some stage.

I don't get how denmark can be used.

What is the Denmarks equivalent of the southern cross cable? They don't have one.

Danish often live in great big apartment complexes so the isp needs less cable in the ground per person.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#726103 3-Dec-2012 12:41

spoonboy: True, but apparently the Denmark provider doesn't even offer limited plans.So, ok, I can accept this. Still, 90 NZD in Slingshot and 42 NZD in Denmark provider.

You're ignoring the reason we had limited plans.

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DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#726106 3-Dec-2012 12:43

surfisup1000: Danish often live in great big apartment complexes so the isp needs less cable in the ground per person.

You can't actually hold that up as a card.

Apartment wiring can be far more complex and expensive than just an over head off a power poll in the street.

The cables in many of our suburbs have been there so long that their book value is now zero anyway.

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spoonboy

126 posts

Master Geek

#726113 3-Dec-2012 12:51

I don't get how denmark can be used.
What is the Denmarks equivalent of the southern cross cable? They don't have one.
Danish often live in great big apartment complexes so the isp needs less cable in the ground per person.

Ok, I red the CC doc again and it seems like I've got the idea this time. Basically, CC is splitting UBA price on UCLL+'UBA additional costs'. Apparently, the Denmark example is only used to determine the 'UBA additional costs' not the total UBA price.

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#726147 3-Dec-2012 13:39

spoonboy:
Ok, I red the CC doc again and it seems like I've got the idea this time. Basically, CC is splitting UBA price on UCLL+'UBA additional costs'. Apparently, the Denmark example is only used to determine the 'UBA additional costs' not the total UBA price.

Ok so what you're really talking about is the Chorus last mile and DSLAM charges.

25% change in those costs is not going to translate to a 25% change in end user value.

What you're asking is will we see a transfer of costs from Chorus to data value costs.

I'm sure some ISPs will just choose to pocket the difference as profit while others will use the savings on Chorus costs to purchase more network capacity to deliver more data/value to end users.

Most folk seem to agree that the current barrier to more consumer value is national transit.

This is why dropping a new cable from Sydney to Nelson is important, that will make a significant change to the market to bring more value.

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surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#726273 3-Dec-2012 16:09

DonGould:
surfisup1000: Danish often live in great big apartment complexes so the isp needs less cable in the ground per person.

You can't actually hold that up as a card.

Apartment wiring can be far more complex and expensive than just an over head off a power poll in the street.

The cables in many of our suburbs have been there so long that their book value is now zero anyway.

Sorry , I must disagree with you.

A single highrise apartment building with 300 apartments is going to be cheaper to service from an ISP's perspective than 300 single level houses spread across an entire block.

Isn't this one of the reasons Sth Koreas internet costs are so low?

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#726290 3-Dec-2012 16:22

surfisup1000: A single highrise apartment building with 300 apartments is going to be cheaper to service from an ISP's perspective than 300 single level houses spread across an entire block.

You're not making any sense.

Are you talking about the ISP/RSP or the CAN owner/maintainer?

If you're talking about Chorus specifically, then I don't see why 300 apartments are any less expensive than 300 single level homes. I could see why 300 apartments would in fact be more expensive to maintain and or make moves and changes in.

With respect to CAN maintenance, where are you assuming the costs are?

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spoonboy

126 posts

Master Geek

#726294 3-Dec-2012 16:30

Most folk seem to agree that the current barrier to more consumer value is national transit.

Ok, just wonder how much SPs are paying for the traffic now?

DonGould

3892 posts

Uber Geek

#726315 3-Dec-2012 16:56

spoonboy: Ok, just wonder how much SPs are paying for the traffic now?

That depends on the really obvious range of metrics.

At present 80% of traffic is coming out of Auckland from either Sydney or USA.

However the amount of national transit an ISP needs is based on where their customers are.

Some transit is regulated, but I doubt the regulated prices reflect market rates.

ISPs have to simply allow for the lowest common denominator.

If SNAP has 1 customer on VDSL in Gore then they have to have at least 50 mbits of PIR transit from Auckland to Gore.

But it all depends on how that customer is connected to the SNAP core at layer 2. SNAP could be buying a package from Telecom, TelstraClear, FX, or a range of other providers to bring all the little areas into a bundle to give them a single Auckland based NNI.

There are 29 historic Chorus/Telecom peering points around New Zealand.

However these days providers can purchase capacity all the way to an NGN cabinet to colocate their own DSLAM equipment.

I'm sorry, you're really not asking a simple question to provide any sort of simple answer to.

As a guide, one provider I know of was paying roughly 30% of their US/International capacity transit price for transit from Auckland. However traffic peering in and out of Telecom/TelstraClear is 450% more expensive than their US/Global transit costs.

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Athlonite

1828 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#726508 3-Dec-2012 22:14

I see for 399DKK (86.17NZD) you go 50/5Mbits unlimited per month that's gotta be way better than here

what's the cost of an 50/5mbit unlimited ufb connection here

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek

#726511 3-Dec-2012 22:21

Athlonite: I see for 399DKK (86.17NZD) you go 50/5Mbits unlimited per month that's gotta be way better than here

what's the cost of an 50/5mbit unlimited ufb connection here

That's not far off ufb prices.
Ufb is only available in a few areas, but. You don't know how widely available that service is in Denmark either.

blair003

557 posts

Ultimate Geek

#726537 3-Dec-2012 23:19

VDSL2 is up to 50/10 and comparable price. Not unlimited though.

Athlonite

1828 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#726556 4-Dec-2012 01:03

UFB from Orcon is $89 per month for 30/10 and 60GB personally I don't think that is in any way comparable to 50/5 and unlimited for $5 bucks less

as for the availability I'd say it's most likely in metropolitan areas same as UFB will be here when they eventually finish rolling it out

Ragnor

8085 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#726561 4-Dec-2012 01:12

Retail minus was a retarded methodology, it's good they are using benchmarking vs other countries to determine the wholesale cost for UBA connections.

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