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  Reply # 793040 4-Apr-2013 11:27
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This situation just makes me laugh! There is so many reasons not to use existing poles but they still insisted on building the brand new billion dollar network on the bloody things. Now things have gone to sh1t because people/ISP's still want their copper line in. All could have been avoided if the blanket rule was that it was going to be a completely separate underground network.

And yes I know issues still might arise with the lead in ducting but from what I have seen (and heard from the installers first hand) there is still heaps of digging going on anyway so why not just trench in a new lead. And yes there are places in NZ where the ground is rock blah blah blah but there is always a way.

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  Reply # 793094 4-Apr-2013 12:25
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chevrolux: This situation just makes me laugh! There is so many reasons not to use existing poles but they still insisted on building the brand new billion dollar network on the bloody things. Now things have gone to sh1t because people/ISP's still want their copper line in. All could have been avoided if the blanket rule was that it was going to be a completely separate underground network.

And yes I know issues still might arise with the lead in ducting but from what I have seen (and heard from the installers first hand) there is still heaps of digging going on anyway so why not just trench in a new lead. And yes there are places in NZ where the ground is rock blah blah blah but there is always a way.


Yup, I seem to remember all this being covered in that thread I started a month or so back about them LFCs putting fibre up on power poles to save a few bucks. Frown




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  Reply # 793143 4-Apr-2013 13:02
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DarthKermit:
chevrolux: This situation just makes me laugh! There is so many reasons not to use existing poles but they still insisted on building the brand new billion dollar network on the bloody things. Now things have gone to sh1t because people/ISP's still want their copper line in. All could have been avoided if the blanket rule was that it was going to be a completely separate underground network.

And yes I know issues still might arise with the lead in ducting but from what I have seen (and heard from the installers first hand) there is still heaps of digging going on anyway so why not just trench in a new lead. And yes there are places in NZ where the ground is rock blah blah blah but there is always a way.


Yup, I seem to remember all this being covered in that thread I started a month or so back about them LFCs putting fibre up on power poles to save a few bucks. Frown


Why not put fiber on the power poles if they are there??  The power poles are not going away any time soon in most suburbs..




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  Reply # 793214 4-Apr-2013 14:10
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chevrolux: This situation just makes me laugh! There is so many reasons not to use existing poles but they still insisted on building the brand new billion dollar network on the bloody things.


UFB is costing over $3000 per home passed at present. The pricing difference between overhead and underground is very significant during the microducting deployment. You've then got to factor in average install costs which word is are well over the $3k mark for many underground installations.

That's $6k to get fibre to your house, at that rate money will run out well before UFB is ever completed. If existing overhead infrastructure is in place it would seem logical to use it.'

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  Reply # 793264 4-Apr-2013 15:06
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chevrolux: This situation just makes me laugh! There is so many reasons not to use existing poles but they still insisted on building the brand new billion dollar network on the bloody things. Now things have gone to sh1t because people/ISP's still want their copper line in. All could have been avoided if the blanket rule was that it was going to be a completely separate underground network.

And yes I know issues still might arise with the lead in ducting but from what I have seen (and heard from the installers first hand) there is still heaps of digging going on anyway so why not just trench in a new lead. And yes there are places in NZ where the ground is rock blah blah blah but there is always a way.


I still think a pole to my house is the best solution.


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  Reply # 793508 4-Apr-2013 21:31
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sbiddle:
chevrolux: This situation just makes me laugh! There is so many reasons not to use existing poles but they still insisted on building the brand new billion dollar network on the bloody things.


UFB is costing over $3000 per home passed at present. The pricing difference between overhead and underground is very significant during the microducting deployment. You've then got to factor in average install costs which word is are well over the $3k mark for many underground installations.

That's $6k to get fibre to your house, at that rate money will run out well before UFB is ever completed. If existing overhead infrastructure is in place it would seem logical to use it.'



Completely agree with this, in my rural area power poles are everywhere and the power lines are never going under ground for a very long time why not use them for fibre as well. Yes I know the wheather and other things will get them but at least it is much easier to fix when it does.
I see this as a very cheap and easy and fast way for rural to get fibre.




Now on 2talk Network and it's better.



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  Reply # 795199 8-Apr-2013 19:44
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old3eyes:
DarthKermit:
chevrolux: This situation just makes me laugh! There is so many reasons not to use existing poles but they still insisted on building the brand new billion dollar network on the bloody things. Now things have gone to sh1t because people/ISP's still want their copper line in. All could have been avoided if the blanket rule was that it was going to be a completely separate underground network.

And yes I know issues still might arise with the lead in ducting but from what I have seen (and heard from the installers first hand) there is still heaps of digging going on anyway so why not just trench in a new lead. And yes there are places in NZ where the ground is rock blah blah blah but there is always a way.


Yup, I seem to remember all this being covered in that thread I started a month or so back about them LFCs putting fibre up on power poles to save a few bucks. Frown


Why not put fiber on the power poles if they are there??  The power poles are not going away any time soon in most suburbs..


Aerial cabling is a much more prone to high maintenance requirements and of course maintenance costs. I believe this is the major reasoning against overhead fibre.

In terms of the overhead cabling into the address, according to the TSO Telecom is obliged to have voice based services available to all addresses. Since we don't have a voice over fibre product available yet having Chorus remove the copper service would be breaching that agreement even if a customer specifically requests it.
Even if we did remove it we'd be deemed liable under the TSO to replace it for future home owners etc

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  Reply # 795203 8-Apr-2013 19:51
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So what happens when another ISP removes it as they provide a naked or IP based service, and then someone in that house wants to get telecom again? does the TSO mean you have to go installing an obsolete product at no cost to the new resident of the house?




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  Reply # 795229 8-Apr-2013 20:37
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richms: So what happens when another ISP removes it as they provide a naked or IP based service, and then someone in that house wants to get telecom again? does the TSO mean you have to go installing an obsolete product at no cost to the new resident of the house?


Only if we have removed it do we become liable to replace it under the TSO is my understanding of it. For example a lot of installs we do to houses that have only ever been Telstra Cable the copper service lead is at cost to the customer.
Once we have voice over fibre the point should be moot since we can provide voice service via the fibre line, but there hasn't been a lot of word on this yet.

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  Reply # 827610 29-May-2013 11:27
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Howdy Forum!

I was wondering if there is any more information on this.  Fibre has just become available on our street with the same issues as illustrated by the OP.  I can have fibre with Telecom if I am willing to dig a trench on my property and have Telecom underground my copper line.  /rant on: I find it very interesting that the whole installation of fibre along my street and the surrounding streets is designed for Aerial installs.  It is as though Chorus had to have the fibre installed but the actual infrastructure (telephone over fibre) or the bureaucracy (no additional aerial lines) isn't ready.  So we have spent large as taxpayers for a system that is not ready for prime time. : /rant off

I'm sorry if that just seemed like a whine/whinge session but I have been looking forward to fibre for quite a while and the idea of having to pay an extra ~$200 to get it installed annoys me.  Are there any hints/tips to get this done or do I need to jump ship and get a VoIP line sorted with Snap?

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  Reply # 827683 29-May-2013 12:32
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While I see your frustrations I tend not to agree. Considering the most you might have to pay will be around 200-300 you are doing very well compared to what has been the norm for P2P fibre arrangements. Connections could of cost $10k!!

It isn't Chorus's fault that RSP's (one in particular) haven't got their act together with a VoIP offering. It is a extremely complicated thing for them to achieve but they have had many years now to sort it out since the first broadband over fibre subdivision went live and they failed to produce a VoIP product then.

Conclusion, bite the bullet and trench it in. Looks heaps tidier at the end of the day too.

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  Reply # 827721 29-May-2013 13:52
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While I would have been happier with a 'you know you are so right answer or some interesting back door way to get the aerial option, I appreciate your response :). I was hoping someone would say 'I am on the 100/50 plan with 150GB and they installed for free!'  

AS an additional question, as I use quite a bit of bandwidth primarily through the US is there a better ISP to go with for lower ping rates?  This relates to the above from the standpoint of changing providers.  If Telecom is the best option for lower ping rates vs say Snap I'll stay with Telecom and bite the bullet.

Thanks again!

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  Reply # 827860 29-May-2013 16:42
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hamstring: Howdy Forum!

I was wondering if there is any more information on this.  Fibre has just become available on our street with the same issues as illustrated by the OP.  I can have fibre with Telecom if I am willing to dig a trench on my property and have Telecom underground my copper line.


Welcome to GZ! So are you willing to dig a trench for them?




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  Reply # 827893 29-May-2013 17:27
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Great question. I guess it really comes down to the performance of the different offerings.  If I can switch to another ISP, receive the same performance or better, and not have to pay an additional cost for the install then Telecom has lost another customer.  If not then I'll get out the shovel ;).  

I do find the situation a bit insane from a commercial perspective.  Barring other confounding factors I see this as an opportunity for Telecom to lose a 'few' customers. And the ones they lose will be top of the food chain internet consumers. But perhaps that isn't where the profit is and they just don't care.

A combined fibre/copper line seems to be the best commercial solution from this side of the monitor. Again I may be missing some of the financial aspects.  But then again I'm not concerned about Telecom's finances, just my own.

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  Reply # 829173 1-Jun-2013 13:43
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Ok it has been confirmed to me that no matter what company orders the install, if they run an aerial cable to the house they have to take one down.  No adding extra aerial cabling.  So Telecom won't do aerials because they dont have a VOIP product to run through the fibre so they need the copper and the fibre.  I talked to some techs doing an install for Orcon up the road to get clarification.  

At this time I have decided against running a trench as any where I put one could be in the way of future renovation plans and would have to be redone.  Now I need to decide on a new ISP.

Thank you to all of you who have contributed to the information above.

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