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muso
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  #827732 29-May-2013 14:15
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Talkiet: Although a traceroute will still look the same, the packet loss issue SHOULD have been resolved. Please comment on whether performance has improved or not.

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to have a debate about the path the traffic takes, just whether or not performance across that path is ok.

Regards
Neil G


Neil - what (if anything) prevents you from disclosing whether the DIA filter or some other thing was the cause of this issue?

freitasm
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  #827734 29-May-2013 14:17
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Vodafone replied with "We have nothing to add".




 

 

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Talkiet
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  #827740 29-May-2013 14:24
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muso: [snip]
Neil - what (if anything) prevents you from disclosing whether the DIA filter or some other thing was the cause of this issue?


The fact that I am a technical representative and I have neither the mandate nor the background to make statements about legal requirements on Telecom or policies that Telecom have chosen to implement for any reason.

I'm interested in sorting out the user affecting issue, not about having a philosophical or theoretical discussion about censorship or DIA filters.

Thanks to Bender84 for the initial post with some good detailed troubleshooting - made it a lot easier to sort this out.

There may still be some periods of funkiness while the changes settle in but my automated reporting is already showing the situation is dramatically improved (packet loss to zero). The different route has disappeared again for the moment. I honestly have no idea whether it will come back. If it does, and it brings packet loss with it, I'll be following up.

Cheers - N





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freitasm
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  #827769 29-May-2013 14:51
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Thanks Neil for looking into it...





 

 

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muso
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  #827774 29-May-2013 15:04
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Talkiet: 
The fact that I am a technical representative and I have neither the mandate nor the background to make statements about legal requirements on Telecom or policies that Telecom have chosen to implement for any reason.

I'm interested in sorting out the user affecting issue, not about having a philosophical or theoretical discussion about censorship or DIA filters.

Cheers - N



Thanks Neil.

I'm only interested in details about what caused the issue on a technical level, not in having a debate about censorship, legal requirements on Telecom, Telecom policies, or philosophical and theoretical discussions about censorship.

If we knew it was the DIA filter then that would be something that should be brought up with the DIA and the independent reference group. Part of the justification advanced for using the filter is that it does not interfere with legitimate traffic. This event suggests that it can and does so interfere - but only if it was indeed the DIA filter that caused the problem.

If it was a Telecom glitch, even one associated with the filter, then presumably nobody (except Telecom) needs to be concerned about it.

If it was a DIA glitch, then we do need to be concerned.

You seem to be in the best place to provide some useful information that doesn't seem to be confidential or commercially sensitive, or subject to any sort of NDA. At the very least it would tell us where to direct further questions.


bender84

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  #827775 29-May-2013 15:11
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Talkiet: Although a traceroute will still look the same, the packet loss issue SHOULD have been resolved. Please comment on whether performance has improved or not.


Many Thanks for following this up Neil, Much appreciated. :) Will have another go at uploading photos to Google+ this evening once I get home.

thomasbeagle
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  #827796 29-May-2013 15:44
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If any telco engineers do want to share what they know on a private/anonymous basis, please email me at thomas@techliberty.org.nz using the anonymous remailer of your choice.

 
 
 
 


freitasm
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  #827881 29-May-2013 17:04
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Telecom's official comment: "We have no specific comment to make. We understand that Google are looking into it, and we are happy for them to resolve."





 

 

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kyhwana2
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  #827942 29-May-2013 19:14
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So, give section 3.3.3 as per http://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/wpg_URL/Services-Censorship-Compliance-Digital-Child-Exploitation-Filtering-System-Code-of-Practice-March-2013

"3.3 The DCEFS will not prevent access to any website or impair any Internet traffic that is not clearly within the scope as defined in paragraph 3.1."

Given that it's pretty obvious they've done that, what happens now? Who do we complain to?
(I imagine they'll just ignore it/no comment/retroactively get rid of that)


freitasm
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  #827955 29-May-2013 19:36
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Note that I've contacted the DIA and so far have received no reply.




 

 

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kyhwana2
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  #827958 29-May-2013 19:38
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freitasm: Note that I've contacted the DIA and so far have received no reply.


Section 5.4 says "nspectors will prepare and maintain a report in respect of each website that is on the filtering list that provides:
  • the site address by URL;
  • the date that the site was reviewed and the reviewing inspector;
  • what an inspector observed on the site each time it is reviewed; and
  • a recommendation for whether the site stays on the filtering list or is removed."


I'm going to make a OIA request to get that report for the google IP address they've added to the filter.
I doubt they'll respond/give me any kind of decent response, because hey, it's the DIA and they're totally secret squirrel about this crap.


JamesL
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  #827965 29-May-2013 19:54
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Probably the same thing as back in 2011 when it happened to Crunchyroll - will just be swept under the rug and ignored

kyhwana2
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  #827970 29-May-2013 20:07
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JamesL: Probably the same thing as back in 2011 when it happened to Crunchyroll - will just be swept under the rug and ignored


Well, Nethui is coming up in a month or so time and they have to respond to my OIA request just before then. I'll make some noise there, like I did at the last one. :|


richms
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  #829656 2-Jun-2013 14:47
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Are they doing anything tricky with https going via their filter like swapping out the cert for a fraudulently issued or similar one?




Richard rich.ms

kyhwana2
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  #829657 2-Jun-2013 14:49
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richms: Are they doing anything tricky with https going via their filter like swapping out the cert for a fraudulently issued or similar one?


It doesn't do https mitm or anything like that. (So it's pretty much useless really)


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